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Tankless Coil Intermittent Hot Water

Forest
Forest Member Posts: 7

Hi, all, I am the new owner of an old steam boiler with a tankless coil for domestic hot water.

The previous owner had the thermostat set to run five cycles per hour. This did not heat the radiators well, but there was consistent hot water available.

I recently learned from Heating Help to change the thermostat to run the boiler one cycle per hour, and while this heats the house much more effectively, now the boiler seems to have hot water only for two or three minutes, then the water goes cool for a few minutes, then warms again, and finally stays cool.


Do you have any advice for creating a more consistent hot water supply?

Thank you.

Comments

  • LRCCBJ
    LRCCBJ Member Posts: 682

    He set the boiler at five cycles per hour to eliminate any cooling of the water in the boiler. It was always above…………175°………….give or take.

    At 1 cycle per hour…………..now it cools down below………….140°…………and that's insufficient for a shower considering the heat transfer of the tankless coil.

    The boiler needs an aquastat that will maintain the boiler at 180° consistently, independent of the heating demand. This is acceptable in the heating season but is highly inefficient for the remaining six months.

    I'm not grasping the "then warms up again" statement. Be curious to know if the boiler started at this moment………….and, if so………….did the thermostat call? I tend to doubt it because you'd have consistent hot water for at least 15 minutes.

    You could also try a low cost experiment and set the boiler at 3 cycles per hour. This might provide acceptable HW for most showers but you'll notice a drop in the temperature of the shower if you started the shower at the end of a boiler cycle. A lot of this speculation depends on how much water the boiler holds.

    All of the above, other than a new aquastat depends on the boiler actually running 3 cycles per hour. If a thermostat is controlling it, it MAY run three cycles per hour………….or it may not run at all if there is no heating demand. If this is the situation, you must install the aquastat. If outdoor temperature climbs to………..say 45F…………the boiler might run once every two hours………….independent of the claimed 3 cycles per hour.

    Forest
  • Forest
    Forest Member Posts: 7
    edited January 5

    Hey, LRCCBJ, thank you for your helpful response. It looks like I do have a Honeywell aquastat—I didn't know what it was before your post—currently set to 130-140 F. I'll try setting it to 180 F for the winter.

    Thanks again!

    Forest

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,455
    edited January 5

    What model aquastat? If it's an L8124***, then that aquastat maintains Low limit, and only will run towards High limit with a heat demand. So if you're raising the High to 180°, raise the Low to 160°. Differential 10° unless you really want to get into it. Be careful at the faucets.

    If the aquastat is an L8041B or equivalent, that aquastat maintains High limit, but I would bring the Low up to 145° considering a pre set 10° differential.

    Again, faucet adjustments will be different. Is there a mixing valve?

    Forest
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,978

    Welcome new steam homeowner. We were all in your shoes at one point.

    Do yourself a favor and cut the lines to the coil, buy a standalone water heater and leave your boiler off in the summer.

    There's no reason to tie your domestic hot water to that boiler.

    Even a resistive electric water heater is only a few hundred dollars a year to run and if you want, you can get a heat pump water heater and have super cheap hot water with possible incentives from your local utility or state.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    Larry Weingartenhot_rodForest
  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,436
    edited January 5

    As EPaul alludes, the boiler coils are not very efficient, are difficult to control and often clog with lime in many areas. You'll probably be happier with an indirect hot water tank, or separate tank hot water heater.

    If you keep the hot water coil, it should (must) be plumbed with an automatic tempering valve to prevent it from delivering dangerously hot domestic water when the heating system is steaming. Many installers skipped the tempering valves or substituted a manual valve to save a few bucks. Especially with kids or elderly folks in the home, overheated hot water can cause serious injuries.

    bburdForestethicalpaul
  • Forest
    Forest Member Posts: 7
    edited January 6

    Thank you, everyone, for helping me learn about steam heat. A hot water heater and—probably—a new boiler are on the horizon.

    The current boiler is an oil burning Utica Model ACE400 ST, and it was installed here around 1994. It's a single pipe steam system.

    The aquastat is a Honeywell L6006A 1244 and there is a mixing valve, a Watts Regulator Company Model 70A. I'm looking at the manual for aquastat; the L6006A is described as a low or high control. Is there a way to see how this control is functioning? Here's a picture.

  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,912

    under that cardboard are 3 screws, common, normally open, normally closed,

    a volt meter across common, and NO, or NC, would tell you where your volts are going, listening closely will swinging the setting dial you should also hear a click,

    known to beat dead horses
    Forest
  • Forest
    Forest Member Posts: 7

    I feel dumb: turning the dial to a higher temperature setting caused the aquastat to click and the boiler to fire. That would suggest it's controlling the low water temperature, right?

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,455

    Yes. Sorry, I feel dumb assuming you had a closed hydronic system. 180° should be fine and the differential is at 5° so there shouldn't be an issue. Can you show the coil or water heater and piping? Is there a mixing valve?

    Forest
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,912

    um, yeah, but you're already set up around 180, (were) correct?

    post a picture showing your sightglass, and the domestic coil and aquastat all in one,

    water level in the boiler needs to cover the coil for good performance, let's see it

    known to beat dead horses
    Forest
  • LRCCBJ
    LRCCBJ Member Posts: 682
    edited January 6

    Not dumb at all. Just need a bit more information. The aquastat is exactly what is required and you already have it. You have set it to 180°F and that will solve your problem. You can also see a small white dial on the right side near the bottom. It's set at 5°F. Increase this value to 15°F. This will prevent too much cycling of the boiler when the heat is not calling. I'm fairly sure you'll still be OK in the shower………….but, if not………….reduce it to 10°F.

    Don't bother with any meters testing anything under the cardboard………..more work that you don't need.

    You already have the anti-scald valve which is important with a steam boiler held at 180°F.

    Forest
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,848

    Your boiler is steam so the L4006A is a low limit to run the boiler for domestic water. That is its only purpose. 130 is way to low. Set it at 160 and see how you do. If not enough hw you can go to 170.

    If your water is hot when set to 160 after a few days you can creep it down a little till your short of hot water. Play with it until you get the right setting.

    Your mixing valve could also be bad or tired. You can also replace the element in the mixing valve if the water temp adjustment doesn't fix it.

    The L4006A is working as a low limit. It fires the burner if the water temp drops below the setting.

    Forest
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,848

    Picture of the Watts 70A mix valve is already above.

  • Forest
    Forest Member Posts: 7

    The aquastat was at 130-140; I adjusted it in the picture. Here’s the boiler in profile. The waterline is at the black indicator on the sight glass. I tried to show a true, eye level reading of every part in relation to the others. The water level is about 20” from the header. There’s no suggested water level mark on the boiler that I can find.

  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,912
    edited January 6

    water level looks good for coil,

    130/140 was too cool, careful at 180,

    note where the mix valve handle is, then exercise it back and forth a few times, and set back to original position,

    careful at 180

    known to beat dead horses
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,636

    I'll add my experience is that mixing valve doesn't do well in hard water. You can check its function by quickly touching the three pipes going to it to see if too much cold is being mixed in.
    Yours, Larry

    Forest
  • Forest
    Forest Member Posts: 7

    I just want to thank everyone for their insight and suggestions. The hot water supply has been much more consistent over the last 24 hours after making adjustments according to your advice.

    Forest

    bburdEBEBRATT-Ed