reusing skimed water…

mattmia2 · December 21

that tee where the returns connect together should be below the water line, it will affect the venting of your mains. the steam from one main once it is filled can then travel to the end of the other main through that tee and close the vent before the other main is filled. if both mains heat at close to th same rate it might not be a problem.

the water line dropping about an inch sounds like steam and condensate in the system heating the house. if 1 inch is close to the lwco your water line is too low or the lwco is too high. it is possible that the detergent is causing priming and putting some of the water in the boiler and the near boiler piping as foam.

you will have to scrub that bucket and everything in it with detergent to get the oil off of it before you re-use it for more skimming though i'm not convinced that you have enough oil in the boiler to be a problem now.

as the system runs it will bring more oil from the mains and the returns back to the boiler so you may need to skim multiple times.

heat1999 · December 21

never had a problem with uneven heating, all of the radiators fill up the same amount at the same time, I monitor them pretty closely, I have an infrared gun, my thermostat is almost always satisfied before they’re done filling

never seen over 1 inch of pressure on the Magnehelic

all the radiator vents are new and working and sized correctly

The main vents are not new, they are old, the reason why they’re still on there is because they are working beautifully, i’ll change them eventually but they seem to be working great now

all 3 mains heat evenly

i’m pretty sure the low-water cut off is in the correct spot per manual, I perhaps keep my water line too low, I’ll take a picture soon

when I put the reused water back in the boiler i used a new one of those jiggly siphon tube things , being very careful not to suck any surface water or suck from the bottom of the bucket, although there wasn’t any rust in the bottom of the bucket,

I did wash the bucket out before hand with hot water, no detergent though

ill skim more today

mattmia2 · December 21

the oil will bond to the plastic, you need detergent to get it off. dish soap or automatic dishwasher detergent works well because it is designed to get grease off of your dishes.

EBEBRATT-Ed · December 21

@heat1999

Thats why I like tsp or washing soda. Oil and water don't mix so in my opinion flushing with water is not the best. The casts iron absorbs some of the oil. Heating the boiler drives the oil out of the metal and the tsp or washing soda cleans it up. JMHO

heat1999 · December 21

well that’s great news, because I’m skimming it right now after adding some tsp

EBEBRATT-Ed · December 21

Make sure to flush out all the tsp when your done skimming

109A_5 · December 22

Hello heat1999,

To some degree I think you are now fighting 'Normal'. Water expands when heated also bubbles are generated, so from 120 degrees to boiling I would expect the water line to rise, mine does. Once steaming the water slowly migrates to other parts of the system, as steam then also as condensate, so it is no longer in the boiler, water line drops a bit. Previously with all the impurities in your boiler water the overall expansion coefficient may have been lower, so you did not see as much of the normal water line deviation.

As others have said the LWCO / auto feeder is not really intended to keep the boiler water line at the best optimum level, it is to keep it at safe minimum level.

Once steaming and the condensate is returning to the boiler and an equilibrium is more or less obtained the water line should only randomly bounce or deviate about no more than a 1/2 inch and should be at an appropriate level. If it abruptly disappears from the sight glass you probably have a water contamination issue.

ethicalpaul · December 22

the water line dropping about an inch sounds like steam and condensate in the system heating the house. if 1 inch is close to the lwco your water line is too low or the lwco is too high.

I thought this exact thing, FWIW

heat1999 · December 22

ok so the manual does say the waterline is supposed to be at 28 1/2 inches to the floor, which is not the center of the glass.

so I was mistaken thinking that the normal waterline was the center of the glass, manual calls for the normal waterline to be 3/4 of the way up the glass,

The low-water cut off is at 26 inches,

I will run more water in it from now on, which will solve my problem with almost tripping low-water cut off

but I still do feel like that too much water is leaving the boiler and I feel like I have wet steam, I guess we’ll have to find out how wet it really is once I get those sight glasses

heat1999 · December 22

on a different note, what do you guys think about something like this for a site glass? I could mount it in a tee or I could weld a NPT bung anywhere I want

https://www.amazon.com/Compressor-Stainless-Liquid-Indicator-Gearbox/dp/B09JCD7R8G/ref%3Dasc_df_B09JCD7R8G?mcid=93e2849cd17d30b4aa64c1d774d3d3ce&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693554822535&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2845294598946681810&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9057239&hvtargid=pla-1647064405881&psc=1

109A_5 · December 22

Are your mains parallel flow or counter flow ?

Why do you think you have wet steam ? With that drop header your steam should be super dry, unless that equalizer restriction is causing condensate to back up into the header. Equalizer should be 1-1/2" and below the Hartford loop connection 1-1/4".

Also it appears the probe type LWCO would have a higher water level trip point than if the boiler was equipped with a M&M 67.

heat1999 · December 22

thanks for all the replies guys, I appreciate the help

I have three mains

One of the two mains from the boiler gets split into two, with two returns

and I have one single main with a return

The main that is split is sloped towards The boiler for about 5 feet, it splits then they slope away from the boiler, so I’m assuming concentrates run back to the boiler for about the first 5 feet, The rest goes to the returns

on the other single main it slopes towards the boiler for about 15 feet until it hits the first radiator and then it slopes away from the boiler, so I’ve got about 15 feet of concentrate running back to the boiler on this one,

I totally agree with everybody the fact that the equalizer is far too small, and I will absolutely be changing it in the near future

was thinking about maybe routing it in the same configuration it’s in, just changing the 90 under the insulation on top to a 2x1.5” reducing 90 and then a union, and the 2 45s teeing back to the bottom with a 2x1.5x2” tee,

obviously Hartford loop in there ill try to source a 1.5 x 1.25 x 1.5 wye

my question would be where should I reduce the lower part of the hartford loop to connect into my 1 inch mud leg?

just anywhere below the waterline?

it would be easier to keep the Hartford loop at 1 inch, I wonder if that would be feasible…

heat1999 · December 22

I also have something to add to that, would it be OK to make the entire equalizer out of 2 inch? I was just looking through my stock and I have a lot of 2” fittings and pipe

delcrossv · December 22

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1828570#Comment_1828570

There's no downside to using 2 inch if you already have it.

heat1999 · December 22

ok ill use that, what size should I get for the Hartford Loop? 1 1/4” or 1 1/2”?

my mud leg is 1” so i’ll have to reduce it again somewhere else

delcrossv · December 22

1"? Is it bushed down?

mattmia2 · December 22

the sections of main that slope toward the boiler should have drips before the header although if they don't have any emitters on those sections it might not make a lot of difference since it is just the condensate from the main itself.

heat1999 · December 22

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1828601#Comment_1828601

all 3 of my returns on the mains are 1 inch, and right now the hartford loop and equalizer are 1 inch

so the only place where it’s bushed down is near the top of the equalizer, there’s a 2 inch to 1 inch bushing

heat1999 · December 22

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1828675#Comment_1828675

could you elaborate more on The emitters? all the near boiler piping was changed so they perhaps took them off when they re-piped them, I haven’t heard that term yet

109A_5 · December 22

Emitters = Radiators, the majority of the condensate generators.

With counter flow systems all the condensate goes back to the boiler in the steam main, however you don't want that condensate going into the header, so they put drips at the boiler end of the steam main to prevent the condensate from getting into the header. With your system the 20 feet of just counter flow steam main will only generate a minimum of condensate primarily to warm up that part of the steam main. Make sure it is insulated.

looks like the boiler return tapping is 2". In your situation I would do the equalizer all the way down to the boilers return tapping in 2" since you have it, changing sizes just to make it the recommended 'minimum' is silly if you already have the 2" stock. Bigger won't hurt.

mattmia2 · December 23

If you're making up welded piping make sure you still have swing joints where you need them for the boiler to be able to move independently.

heat1999 · December 23

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1828825#Comment_1828825

I thought about welding The equalizer together I have a machine that cuts perfect angle cuts in that pipe, if I did I’d have to use two unions

but I also have the ability to cut my own npt threads, and I’d like it to come apart easily if necessary, so I’m just going to order the few fittings that I don’t have to make it out of traditional pipe and fittings

, I would love to make a whole header out of welded pipe

heat1999 · December 23

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1828765#Comment_1828765

yeah you’re right, it would be odd to reduce it back down, i’ll go with 2 inch for the equalizer

What size should the do you think the Hartford loop should be? manual doesn’t say anything about it

all the mains are insulated

delcrossv · December 23

Welded headers without swing joints cause big problems.

109A_5 · December 23

I believe the Hartford loop is included with item 'D'. It and the part of the wet return that precedes it has to accommodate the flow of all the individual wet returns from each main.

ethicalpaul · December 23

I think it's more accurate and easier to say that it must accommodate all the condensate that the boiler's steam can produce. It should be the same size as the wet return as specified by the manufacturer. And it will no doubt be oversized by them but that's fine.

heat1999 · December 25

thanks for the replies!

Merry Christmas!

I now have my sight glass installed on one riser, I think it’s safe to say i’m not throwing a bunch of water into the header

I installed it on the top so that I could see if anything was getting into the header, I do plan on flipping it to see if anything is going in the riser at all

all that happens is condensate forms on the glass, and the occasional drip from above runs down the glass,

I ran it without the insulation on the header at first, it appeared to condensate much more, almost steady drips ran down the glass pretty much the whole time it was steaming,

then I install the insulation and it got much better

I also ordered two 1-1/2” sight glasses for the returns, i’m curious to see how much condensate comes back

I was planning on installing the site glasses on the returns with a push to connect fitting to adapt my 1 inch copper returns to npt for the sight glasses, that way I have the opportunity to move them before I solder them home

The particular ones that I have are rated for 200° so we’ll see if they work on a return, I don’t recall my return temperature ever being over 180 on my infrared gun

thanks for the info on the Hartford Loop, i’m going to run a 2 inch equalizer, with a 1-1/4” Hartford loop

I like the idea of installing a shut off valve on the Hartford loop so that I have the opportunity drain the condensate before it goes back in the boiler, how its mentioned in Dan‘s book

reusing skimed water…

Comments

Categories