Curious about combustion analysis?
Comments
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Curious. Should natural gas fired boilers also get regular combustion checkups? (Sorry if I'm hijacking)
Bryant 245-8, 430k btu, 2-pipe steam in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains. 26 radiators 3800sqf
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Yes, ideally a service tech does a test before and after service and prints the after service analysis showing that numbers are in spec for that unit. Sometimes there needs to be a tweak, some mod/cons adjust combustion themselves but the test must still be done! It's not rocket science, and if it is then you did something wrong!
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And what about on atmospheric gas equipment?
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Yes
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what do you adjust on a gas atmospheric? Or are you just checking to make sure nothing’s fubar from the factory or from building it on site?
NJ Steam Homeowner.
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See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
I believe my unit dates back to the 50s, can specs be found for it?
Bryant 245-8, 430k btu, 2-pipe steam in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains. 26 radiators 3800sqf
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I rarely do combustion analysis on OLD atmospheric natural gas burners. There is so little to adjust on them. Maybe there are some adjustable air gate openings to the individual burners. Maybe not. And even if you make an adjustment on those primary air openings, the secondary air that enters the combustion chamber is so overwhelming that those adjustments do very little. Those burners are 68% efficient at best.
If you are looking at the flame and it is mostly blue, then it is burning correctly. If it is mostly yellow and has lazy smokey tips, then you need to find out what is wrong. I had one of those old American Standard boilers with the cast iron burners in my basement that I owned for over 18 years. I removed the burners and shook out all the rust only once. I didn't see any change in performance or combustion efficiency. I was young and stupid and playing with my Bacharach wet combustion kit on a gas heater, because I only worked on oil burners at the time. 68% combustion efficiency before and after. No change before and after.
Unless you get some wildlife to block the chimney those old things are pretty bullet proof.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Primarily yes. Most atmospheric boiler manuals that I see tell you to check the flame and adjust the pilot adjustment screw to get correct flame color. At that point making a change to how the unit burns I would want to have it on paper how it's burning. It's also a process that finalizes service in my opinion, proves how you left the equipment as a service tech, it takes about 5-10 minutes and can be done while you are checking for good operation after service anyway
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Pretty yellow. The local gas company is coming by tomorrow to check the pressure.
Bryant 245-8, 430k btu, 2-pipe steam in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains. 26 radiators 3800sqf
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With that flame, I would definitely break out my combustion analyzer, draft gauge and thermometer. Something is wrong with that flame.
Have you looked at the heat exchanger with an inspection mirror? There may be a blockage in between the boiler sections .
Is the chimney drafting properly?
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I'm sorry. @EdTheHeaterMan8. My initial yes or no question snowballed. The flame is why I asked about the analyzer in the first place.
I removed the covers to see no blockages between the sections, i also looked in the back to the exhaust, all clean. While i was there i opened a window all the way that was was open only a couple of inches, hopefully that helps with the draft.
Can you recommend a draft gauge and combustion analyzer?
Thank you
Bryant 245-8, 430k btu, 2-pipe steam in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains. 26 radiators 3800sqf
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Any combustion analyzer from Testo, Bacharach, UEI, Fieldpiece, TPI and any other manufacturer will work for measuring combustion and draft. But they are not inexpensive and require training and experience to be able to interpret the data properly and know how to correct the problems. Your best bet is to find a tech who is trained on combustion analysis and equipped with a digital combustion analyzer to do the job for you.
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I hear you. These techs are almost impossible to find where we live. Will keep looking. If i don't find anyone I'd source a used unit and post the results here for interpretation.
In the meantime the manual specifies 3 inch lbs of pressure for the gas and i only have 2 inch lbs so waiting on the gas company to come and check. The orifices on the burners are opened all the way.
Bryant 245-8, 430k btu, 2-pipe steam in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains. 26 radiators 3800sqf
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@guzzinerd, I've created a new discussion for you here.
@EdTheHeaterMan, thanks for the heads up.
Forum Moderator
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Where are you located? If you happen to have any companies that deal with oil burners they should have digital combustion analyzers and know how to use them.
I combustion test every fuel burning unit I work on. It involves more than using the digital combustion analyzer. I measure gas/oil pressure, temperature rise on furnaces, delta T on boilers and draft in the stack and draft over fire. Paying attention to the venting and combustion air supply is an important part of evaluating combustion.
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Thanks to you at HH. This is much less confusing.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Location etc is in my bio. Plumbing companies said they can take readings for me next month but don't do any adjustments.
The previous owners bricked up a couple of crawlspace openings (pic) into the boiler room and installed a firedoor to apease the insurance company.
Today, I removed the brick and propped open the door and the flames are now almost entirely blue. I'll keep an eye on it and take a new photo to share when it's colder tonight.
Bryant 245-8, 430k btu, 2-pipe steam in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains. 26 radiators 3800sqf
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Not perfect but letting in more fresh air made a heck of a difference
Bryant 245-8, 430k btu, 2-pipe steam in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains. 26 radiators 3800sqf
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Your flame looks much better. Insufficient combustion air from a confined space is often the cause of carbon build up on a gas burning system. This is a brief article about combustion air and confined spaces
You can google Combustion air and confined spaces to find more information about this.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Where do you get proper training on combustion testing?
The local trainer from our gas company was fired back in the 80s for teaching a blue flame was safe, Of course that was after he was shown blue flames making over 1000ppm CO I guess the moon is made of cheese and the world is flat. 1890's technology.
Natural draft boilers and water heaters have caused the majority of CO poisonings and deaths
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Listen to this CO savant, Jim Davis. When I studied under Jim almost 30 years ago, he reeducated the whole lot of us. Any classes coming East in 2025 Jim? Mad Dog
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