Massive Corrosion on 10 year unit, What Next
Hi for context I am just a new home owner with a UTICA PEG112CDE from a prior owner
Long story short my rollout sensor kept tripping. Called a steam professional, they saw the deposits on the burner and said I had a leak up top. Confirmed it by overfilling the system.
Me being a skeptic in took it down and investigated. What I saw next I never could have imagined. The cast iron block was disintegrated
This was taken AFTER cleaning off some of the corrosion. I was honestly tempted to just clean it out and close it up to fix the rollout, until I noticed the shank.
Surprisingly the shank is closed at least to water leaking out. There's a much smaller leaking spot up top.
So I'm looking for advice and answers to several questions.
- Obviously it needs to be replaced but I honestly don't immediately see the dangers of me cleaning at least the nipples and running it like this. If there's visible steam there are leak additives out there to plug them. Any opinions on this? What is the danger? This is just to survive this winter and save my pipes. I have a new CO sensor and there should no longer be any rollout
- I thought these cast iron systems were supposed to last 30+ years. Is there any clues as to what happened here. The system is only 10 years old. It was allegedly serviced annually but rumor is that antifreeze was put in the system at some point within the past 2-3 years, this corrosion may have also occurred a year (2024) after having a auto feeding system installed (2023). The system has never operated this year. After late 2023-early 2024 during this summer the system was drained and refilled late fall. I believe most of this corrosion is less than 1-5 years old.
- I called Utica and there were uninterested with my situation. It's deemed out of warranty. They claim the new PEG model line is all different piping and I could go with any brand. Any recommendations? I only need about 100k BTU. I care about price and reliability, that's it. It's a rental so I'll be honest, efficiency really isn't my concern. I also have a lot of basement space. I just don't want to be back here in 10 years.
- Lastly when this does get replaced, I'll obviously get a professional install, but there's clearly different levels of knowledge. On this one, one guy told me to just keep resetting the sensor, and another found the leak without having to see it. What steps during install will be critical to get rid to last 30+ years.
Thank you all for the help
Comments
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I kinda doubt that'll last the season. JMO.
Usually too much make up water is the underlying cause. and that means there are leaks that need fixing.
For installs:
1. Have the boiler sized according to the attached radiation
2.THE BOILER MUST BE INSTALLED USING MANUFACTURER'S RECOMMENDED PIPING LAYOUT- IN BLACK IRON PIPE
3. See points number 1 and 2.
4. If you must get an auto feed, get one with a counter so you can track how many gallons you're using. Keep track of leaks and fix them
5. Clean , or have cleaned, the boiler annually
6. Keep your water pH around 10 or so.
I like Peerless for small boilers , but there are a lot of good brands.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.1 -
Either the boiler was taking on massive amounts of fresh water because of installation or system issues or it was piped in such a way that it was pulling the sections apart.(or antifreeze if this is hot water)
Is this steam or hot water? Antifreeze would only be used in a hot water system. Antifreeze that isn't maintained will become corrosive.
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Needs to be replaced. Needs to be properly sized and piped. Needs regular maintenance. Need to minimize the amount of makeup water added. And no way to reuse that boiler. It is totally toast. Would not try to run that thing
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If it were a minor leak and you could clean out the corrosion plugging the sections you could probably get another season out of it but someone has already gotten that out of this so there really is no way you can safely operate this.
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Thank you so much. I heard small is more unreliable? My gas supplier is PSEG, they don't install Utica only Weil McLains
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It's a steam system, never to be full. Not sure why antifreeze was used. I believe the owner intended on being away for the season and not have the system running. What would cause fresh water? I know it's some kind of town water because my fridge is hooked up to the same pipe , I will say it deposits a lot, the fridge filter never lasted. The county it's in in NJ is known to have very hard water.
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Seems like the iron block is only 100-200lbs. Can't it just be swapped. I see one for $600.
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The iron block is the whole thing and it should weigh around 300-400 for that size. The rest is just dressing. You have to buy a new boiler, there's no getting around that.
I had a Utica that size and it lasted over 20 years with very poor maintenance. They sell an even smaller one, but regardless, it's about the smallest size you can find for any steam boiler.
What causes fresh water to have to be added to a steam boiler is steam or water leaks. For it to only last 10 years as others said it must have had a lot of leaking water. It's not the water per se that is to blame IMO, it's the oxygen that comes with the fresh water.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el1 -
Fresh water is added when there are leaks in the system. A small amount evaporates during normal operation but leaks in the returns, the vents not closing, leaking valve packings, leaking piping, leaking radiators, the system belching water out of vents because of installation issues, any of these things cause it to lose water and make up water to be added in large quantities corroding the boiler.
@STEAM DOCTOR how do you disagree with me saying that boiler is beyond salvage?
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That's fair, the block IS the boiler lol. But what the hell could have caused it to leak. There's cracks up top, but I fear a leak elsewhere. This unit replaced a prior PEG, and only lasted 10 years. I see you are NJ based, this is in Union. Could it be the hard water supply?? Also any government programs that you know can help replace? Story was a fib to shift blame, this is owned by a 80yr old senior.
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How common are leaks away from the boiler. This is a 1920s build house. I can vaguely remember steam venting from radiators occasionally but that's about it.
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Return piping below the water line inevitably eventually rots out and leaks. Vents wear out and have to be replaced eventually, poorly operating systems will make them have a short life, the can last for decades or more in a well installed and maintained system. Valve packings need to be adjusted and replaced periodically. Steam piping above the water line usually lasts a very long time unless problems with the boiler installation are throwing water up in to them which tends to rot them out quickly. Basically someone needs to look for obvious system problems and replace the boiler then look for less obvious problems after the boiler is replaced.
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Exactly that is what we're talking about—steam venting from radiators is a major source of leak.
It's not the boiler that leaks initally, it's these small system leaks that cause the boiler to rot out.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el1 -
Changed it. Was a fat thumb moment.
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that's pretty bad , , ,
could you post a picture of the header and piping above that boiler?
floor to ceiling
known to beat dead horses
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WM is fine. It's all in the installation.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
Best I have now, will see if I can take more later.
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Well, that's horrible. 😬
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
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Don't let anyone pipe the new one like that one is.
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Is your gas company, the only one that is allowed to do this installation?
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What's wrong with it lol? I know the chimney vent, not shown slopes down at some point. Was pointed out to me during this ordeal.
No, the old one cracked. We got this one, insurance paid for it. Not sure who was able to pick but a contractor did it. Our gas company can do installs but only the WM brand.
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The near boiler piping couldn't be more wrong.
Compare this:
to this:
Note also how the manual specified iron pipe, while yours was done in copper.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.2 -
This would optimize steam dryness and provide swing joints to relieve stress on the boiler:
Does your piping look like this? Didn't think so.
The installer DIDN'T FOLLOW THE MANUAL.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.1 -
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This specific model is the Utica PEG-CDE I believe this is the correct diagram. Doesn't mention anything about iron only but I've seen the arguments online. The only thing I can point out with the untrained eye is that this is "single tapped" and there's no skimming tee. So I guess that was never done. For clean out/ blow down that blue faucet is what we'd use to drain the system if needed.
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However thank you for noting this. Looking for all tips and tricks to make the next one last at least 20 years
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Iron pipe is sort of a given.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.1 -
None of the order of takeoffs, orientation, or really existence of the header as is shown in this diagram. it really doesn't even have a header in your installation.
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