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Radiant in floor heating, apartment won't cool.

sdreeves42
sdreeves42 Member Posts: 8
in Radiant Heating

Hello, I am a person who moved into a brand new apartment building with a strange heating system. They said it was in floor radiant heat that built up heat and released it over time. They said it took like a day or so to cool down if you change it. Ok, not my favorite option but fine.

The problem is that we turned the system completely off because it was so hot in here, and 3 days later the apartment will not cool down. It's winter in Portland and it's freezing outside but 78 degrees in the living room. The floors still feel warm. It just feels like heat is constantly radiating from somewhere. What could possibly be the reason for this? I feel like it's a mechanical problem or they've configured it poorly...I don't know anything about this stuff to really have any specific ideas. Just seems wrong.

Comments

  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 3,005

    You have no control in turning down the heat for some reason , it is just running on the buildings outdoor reset control …

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • sdreeves42
    sdreeves42 Member Posts: 8

    Thank you. Been trying to reach management but they're out for the holidays and there's no emergency maintenance number. Don't know if they consider it an emergency but I do. I'm very sensitive to heat and heat related illnesses.

  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,841

    do your windows open ?

    known to beat dead horses
    Intplm.
  • sdreeves42
    sdreeves42 Member Posts: 8
    edited December 1

    I'm on the 7th floor of an 8 floor building, with a community room above me. Huge windows. The 3 bedroom windows all crank out. The living room window does not open. I have had all 3 bedroom windows open for days with the doors open to bring as much cool air into living room as I could.

    Today I even hooked up my portable AC and connected the exhaust to the dryer vent exhaust. But that room is around 2 corners and down a hall from the living room. After several hours of having it on the temp went down 1 degree from 78 to 77.

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 23,270
    edited December 3

    it sounds like a case of ghost flow. Somehow somewhere water flow is bypassing, or going backwards through a control zone valve or zone pump for your space. Could be a shorted or mis wired control Dirt or debris holding a valve open.

    Not easy to troubleshoot over the WWW

    The installing contractor would be the best set of eyes to get on it

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Intplm.sdreeves42HVACNUT
  • sdreeves42
    sdreeves42 Member Posts: 8

    Thank you. I have reported it to them but haven't heard anything yet. Tomorrow I'll ask the manager when they're going to look at it. I'm using so much electricity running my AC 24/7 and even at night it's not getting below 70. My biggest fear is what this will mean come summertime. If it's 78 in the winter when it's 38 outside, then when it's 90 outside is it going to be like 130 in here? That's crazy.

  • sdreeves42
    sdreeves42 Member Posts: 8

    I was officially told NOT to turn the thermostat to off. But to keep it on and lower the temperature by a specific 4 degrees, wait 24 hours and report whether or not it lowered.

    If off isn't actually turning it off isn't that indicative of a problem right there? What kind of system wouldn't allow me to turn it off? Even though the thermostat says off.

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,298

    If it was done right, there should be a manifold in the apartment, or out in a hall utility closet. It could be as simple as an actuator not seated properly.

    I think once it's functioning the way it's supposed to, you'll be happy with the radiant. Once you find the sweet spot, just leave it. What thermostat is it? Do you know if it has a floor sensor?

    GGross
  • GGross
    GGross Member Posts: 1,258
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1824467#Comment_1824467

    Management actually gave a decent bit of advice here for the general user. Whether you turn it off, or set it 4 degrees lower, after 24 hours the temp should drop, if not that would mean whatever controls your zone is not working. If it DOES drop then you will want to set your thermostat low enough so the space stays comfortable, even if that number is below what you normally would set. I don't think it was the intent of your property management to give a system that won't turn off, there may just be a broken component. As for the cooling issue, currently your floor is pumping heat into the space for heating right now which is why it is overheating. In the summer your boiler will be off, so you will just need to cool the space like normal, whether or not the A/C is big enough to keep you comfortable remains to be seen

  • sdreeves42
    sdreeves42 Member Posts: 8
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1824473#Comment_1824473

    It's an UPONOR touch screen thing. I don't know if it has a floor sensor.

    The temperature drops every night, then raises again in the day. I had the thermostat set to 35 and turned it off. With it "off" it drops to about 71-72 overnight with my 16,000 BTU AC running 24/7. Monday night it actually broke out of the 70s to 69 overnight, but yesterday I turned the thermostat on and set it to 68, then last night it didn't get below 72 for some reason.

    When we walked through the apartment prior to moving in, the thermostat was set at 66 and it did not feel hot inside. As soon as we moved our stuff and 5 bodies in it shot up to the high 70s. Which just tells me it never sensed the temperature rise and shut down the heating until it lowered again.

    The walls in here all have gaps at the top with "vents" (long metal rails full of holes) running along them. This was to vent the heat out they said. So radiant heating installers already know there is a potential problem of trapped heat. But as far as I know there's no such thing as a building so well designed and insulated that it will never lose heat once applied... If it's 35 degrees outside, any building that is not being supplied heat will be freezing inside.

    After more than a WEEK with this set to off and it being very uncomfortably hot, why wouldn't they conclude that either the thermostat or something is malfunctioning and actually send someone to fix it? It's 100% still coming from my floor, because everything that gets lifted off the floor is all warm underneath. I may be in the minority but I LIKE when hard floors are cold under my feet.

  • GGross
    GGross Member Posts: 1,258

    Have you told them the heat has been set far lower than what the indoor temp is, and that it just keeps going up? Obviously either the heating system is supplying heat when it shouldn't, or you have another source of heat in the apartment. I'm a little unclear if all these tests are being done with an AC running or not. if the stat was set to 68, and stayed around 72, with no AC or windows open I would say that sounds like a balance issue more than anything, set the stat for 66 maybe it overshoots a little. My advice for talking to management is to keep this very brief. "I have the stat set at 60 and it's 78 in here, floor is still hot please send a service tech" I'll just say if you give them the full story they will get confused, as am I, its a lot of info. Just set the stat at 60, close the window and turn off the AC, and then call them and tell them its too hot, the system is not turning off. Once it is repaired set your stat so it is comfortable in the space, even if you have to set it lower than you think you want it to be because it you floor will probably continue radiating heat even when off for a good few hours and you like it cold

  • sdreeves42
    sdreeves42 Member Posts: 8

    I hooked the AC up on Sunday later in the day. It's been running constantly since then and it does help. It was up to 78 in the day before I hooked it up now it only gets to 75-76.

    The bedrooms are the only comfortable things, and they will get too cold at night but if I shut the window all the way it gets too hot to sleep so I have to leave it cracked.

    But yeah I will keep it brief and tell them the temp will not lower and that the floors are still warm.

  • sdreeves42
    sdreeves42 Member Posts: 8

    My wife talked to them on her way out and the manager stated that it CAN NOT be turned off, only lowered. So there are systems where a tenant is not able to stop the hot water flowing through their apartment? And the "Off" on the thermostat what, just doesn't do anything? It actually just stays on whatever it was last set at? Does that sound right?

  • GGross
    GGross Member Posts: 1,258
    edited 6:44PM

    If it can be lowered then it can be turned off. The manager does not want you turning off the infloor heat because if it freezes you have to tear the whole apartment apart to fix it

    to clarify a little, every time the thermostat is satisfied (at or above setpoint) the system is effectively turned off. it's possible they installed dummy stats, but also pretty unlikely as those are decently expensive little stats

  • GGross
    GGross Member Posts: 1,258

    you are going to be communicating with people who do not know how the system operates and are just doing what they are told. Many heating techs don't understand these systems let alone the new building manager. the boss probably told them "these can not get turned off" and they extrapolated from there. Either the stats do absolutely nothing, or they can 100% be turned off if they can be lowered in any way. I would not turn off the system though, just turn it down as low as it can go for now

  • DCContrarian
    DCContrarian Member Posts: 666

    The landlord is letting you make his problem your problem. It's not your job to fix it. The question is probably better handled by a landlord-tenant law forum than a heating forum.

    At this point I'd be telling the landlord:

    • All future communications need to be in writing
    • I'm going to be withholding rent if it's not fixed soon
    • I'm withholding rent for the cost of running the air conditioner until it's fixed.

    As to the cost of the air conditioner, a 16,000 BTU/hr unit should use about 1kW. There are 720 kW hours in a month, so 720 times whatever a kWh costs where you are.

    These people may not understand how the system works, but they understand money.

  • GGross
    GGross Member Posts: 1,258

    Brand new apartment building could very well just be a mis-wired zone valve. Landlord more than likely just needs to contact the installer, they usually cover 1 year on these jobs to fix any install errors. thats why I suggest keeping it brief with them because you need this manager to be on your side to get this resolved quickly and smoothly. Sure if you want to go to court over it that's up to you, personally I would think thats a bit more of a pain than getting the landlord to call the installer.

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