Resizing radiator to fit underneath bench

nickr · October 29

I'm looking to replace a current radiator (steam, one-pipe system) so that it'll fit underneath new built-in bench seating. The current radiator has suboptimally been buried within cabinets.

My questions:

How do I calculate the EDR of the current radiator?
Can I go with a lower EDR radiator, since the temp in that room has been fine even though the current setup traps heat.
Any leads on where in northern NJ I can find a long and low radiator that can fit underneath the bench seat?
If one low radiator isn't enough to replace the current radiator, would it be crazy to attach two small radiators to the current riser?
Any other recommendations/tips for how best to integrate a steam radiator into this sort of project? (slats in the benches, thermostatically controlled blower vent at top of bench, etc.?)

The first pic below is the current setup. The second pic is our project rendering.

ethicalpaul · October 29

Yes you can find a radiator that low. The ones I've seen are low and wide and seem like they should fit in that space. Keep an eye on craigslist, and also facebook marketplace where I always see a wide variety of radiators popping up.

Yes it can be lower EDR. People will say you risk unbalancing your entire system but those concerns are extremely overblown.

You should be able to size the existing one with available charts, it is a standard 2 column design I think. I will look for some examples to add to this post in a moment.

As for comfort, I think no one can say…we have seen radiators under church pews on this site, but the exact performance I think is going to come down to "try it and see how it works". Start conservative and drill more holes in the bench if you need to is how I would do it 😅

OK here is the kind I'm thinking of, on the right in this picture:

Oh yeah you can also put a convector type under there. The kind with the very thin blades aren't great because not enough mass, but they make some that are cast, let me look for that picture. OK here is the kind I'm thinking of:

Also, you are fortunately in the steam capital of the US, northern NJ. There are lots of systems getting ripped out every day here.

EdTheHeaterMan · October 29

https://www.weil-mclain.com/sites/default/files/field-file/Weil-McLain_BoilerReplacementGuide_WM2012-web_0.pdf

This has the EDR estimates on page 10

EdTheHeaterMan · October 29

Sourcing a replacement radiator is easy enough, used radiators are on ebay all the time. https://www.ebay.com/str/wagnersalvage?_trksid=p4429486.m3561.l161211

New radiators are available from US Boiler and Governale come to mind https://governaleindustries.com/ and https://www.usboiler.net/residential-boiler-product-selector.html#radiators

CLamb · November 1

Also keep an eye on freecycle.org. They occasionally popup there as well.

mattmia2 · November 1

Is there any chance you could slide that built in out 10" or so and keep the radiator in a box behind it with a grill in the bottom and top? If this were just like an entryway I would suggest the convector idea, but a convector is going to heat very differently than the standing cast iron radiator and this looks like a place that you want to be comfortable. It looks like you might be able to put an offset in the riser and move the radiator back a little closer to the wall. I'm very concerned that whoever is sitting right in front of that glass is going to be cold unless you have heat washing up over it.

If you do get radiators under the bench I would make a chase up the wall behind the seat and put the outlet there, i would cover the front, and i would make the intake a slot at the very bottom of the cabinet so you get some of the effect of a convector cabinet and so that the heated air washes over the glass. Even the best triple pain and low e argon glass is a terrible insulator compared to an uninsulated wall.

EdTheHeaterMan · November 1

here is a rendering of your rendering to illustrate what @mattmia2 is suggesting.

Here is an example I found on Esty. I bet there is a radiator behind the seat somewh

ere

nickr · November 2

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1817548#Comment_1817548

How does convector heating differ from radiator heating? Would a convector positioned under the bench, with a chase up the wall and openings like in EdTheHeaterMan's rendering above, not provide sufficient heat flow to replace the radiator?

bburd · November 2

A convector generally has much less thermal mass than a radiator, so it heats up quickly, but also cools off quickly. The effect is especially strong with hot water systems where the mass of the water comes into play, but it also happens with steam.
Convectors and radiators, or any combination of emitters that greatly differ in thermal mass, should generally not be mixed in the same heating zone. The usual result is that areas with high mass emitters will overheat, while areas with low mass emitters will underheat.

nickr · November 2

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1817595#Comment_1817595

Got it. Thank you. I like the idea of nudging the radiator toward the wall and building around it — if we can spare that space. Otherwise I'll replace with a long and low radiator that fits under the bench.

mattmia2 · November 2

You also can get wall hung radiators that would be closer to the wall.

Resizing radiator to fit underneath bench

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