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Atmospheric conversion burner?

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delcrossv
delcrossv Member Posts: 2,204
in THE MAIN WALL
I see any number of inshot burner heads at the local supply house, and I do know that the earlier gas boilers were oil boilers with inshot atmospheric gas burners installed. I still see them from time to time.

I know Carlin, Beckett etc, make power conversion burners, but I can't find any atmospheric version poking around on the web.

Question is, does anyone still make an atmospheric conversion burner as a kit? Seems there'd be a market for it with no fan noise to deal with.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.

Comments

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,567
    Not that I know of.

    I think making an atmospheric work in a modern oil-fired boiler would be a lost cause. There is not enough of an opening to provide the needed combustion air by natural draft, so you would need a fan.

    What boiler do you have?

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 2,204
    edited March 2024
    Steamhead said:

    Not that I know of.

    I think making an atmospheric work in a modern oil-fired boiler would be a lost cause. There is not enough of an opening to provide the needed combustion air by natural draft, so you would need a fan.

    What boiler do you have?

    Not enough of an opening in the burner door? How did they handle it previously? The ones I've seen fit in a 5 or 6" port in the firebox door w/o any additional air input.

    Sort of a general question at present. But something like a PeerlessWBV or BurnhamV8H, WM WGO or similar. Wet base.
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,282
    You might look at Midco or Roberts Gordon but I don't think they are made any longer.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,962
    they were really just used for coal conversions. not much of a market for that anymore and you can make a gas power burner work when you can make an atmospheric burner work so no reason to make 2 products. i think the few that i have seen in person were bryant.
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 2,552
    Customers didn't care about electric consumption?
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,962
    the electricity is negligible compared to the fuel. the atmospheric gas conversion burners that were millivolt had the advantage of working without power
    delcrossv
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 2,204
    And they're noiseless.
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 2,204
    edited March 2024
    mattmia2 said:

    they were really just used for coal conversions. not much of a market for that anymore and you can make a gas power burner work when you can make an atmospheric burner work so no reason to make 2 products. i think the few that i have seen in person were bryant.

    Last I saw was on a Crane, and it really looked like it was made for oil- no provision for a grate or ash box.
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 2,552
    mattmia2 said:

    the electricity is negligible compared to the fuel. the atmospheric gas conversion burners that were millivolt had the advantage of working without power

    I meant that owners accepted power burners because they didn't consider electricity cost.
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 2,204
    edited March 2024
    Kept on poking around and finally found this! 50,000 to 290,000 btu adjustable. Atmospheric.

    Seems just the thing when you have a tenant right above the boiler room. :smile:



    https://adamsmanufacturing.com/gasburners.html



    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,567
    Fixed the link:

    https://www.adamsmanufacturing.com/pdfs/speedflame2.pdf

    The diagram does not show the air tube diameter, and I can't find the installation manual on the site.

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

    delcrossv
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 2,204
    edited March 2024
    Steamhead said:

    Fixed the link:

    https://www.adamsmanufacturing.com/pdfs/speedflame2.pdf

    The diagram does not show the air tube diameter, and I can't find the installation manual on the site.

    Thanks!

    Me neither. I'm going to call them Monday and see how big a hole in the door I'd need. But looks like an updated version of the ones I've seen.
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 2,204
    edited March 2024
    They're faxing over the install instructions, but on the phone they said about 4" door port. Seems it's a direct swap for a Carlin or Beckett etc.. :D
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
    mattmia2
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,567
    What boiler do you want to put this in?

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 2,204
    edited March 2024
    Steamhead said:

    What boiler do you want to put this in?

    Nothing specific , yet. But a wet firebox, large water volume one is what I'm thinking.
    @Steamhead Any suggestions in the 80-150k BTU range?
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 2,204
    Our fax was having problems so they're mailing it. I'll try to scan up the relevant pages when it comes in.
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,567
    delcrossv said:

    Steamhead said:

    What boiler do you want to put this in?

    Nothing specific , yet. But a wet firebox, large water volume one is what I'm thinking.
    @Steamhead Any suggestions in the 80-150k BTU range?
    If that burner has no fan at all, pretty much any modern boiler's flue passages will probably cause enough back-pressure that you won't get good combustion. I'll wait to see what the manual says about it.

    FWIW, the Midco EC series burners are a bit quieter than the Carlin EZ-Gas. We've used both.

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,282
    @delcrossv

    I would be extremely cautious about installing Anything that Adams makes. We (when I was working) installed some of their furnaces...nothing short of junk.

    If you search on this site for a post, I did 6 or 7 years ago you will see the problems I went through.

    If their gas burner are anything like there other equipment I wouldn't touch it.

    But that is up to you.
    delcrossv
  • Mustangman
    Mustangman Member Posts: 115
    I personally have never installed a conversion gas burner with atmospheric draft. I really like Carlin EZ Gas with a 9 slot head. I learned a valuable lesson years ago on conversion burners. I have a system that had 3 Axman Anderson NPO oil boilers to convert. I called Axman for a burner recommendation on what gas burner to use.
    I installed the burners as per instruction. I noticed there seemed to be a delay in the ignition and it would light very hard at times. I called the factory and actually talked to the owner / designer. He asked me about draft. I had plenty of draft. He had me put the test kit on. He was thinking that I was on the wrong side of the combustion curve. After more adjustments, we lit it off and I swear, I ran for the door. Thought it was blowing up. It actually jumped around the pad. Scared the hell out of me. We ended up switching burners. I won't throw stones at any manufacturer, but I will tell you when we switched burners, it was 100% improved. The problem ended up being the head that came with the burner. They recommended a 9 slot head. They fire with a swirling action which is perfect for a horizonal pass type boiler. The combustion gasses are not loading up the chamber causing a lack of combustion air and poor combustion.
    AA boilers are made in my home town so there are a lot CP0s around and many want gas. I don't think any kind of atmospheric burner would work well with horizontal pass boilers.
    I was surprised to see the efficiency rate of these converted boilers. Solid mid 80s on just about all of them. Good luck

  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 2,204
    edited March 2024
    EBEBRATT-Ed said:

    @delcrossv

    I would be extremely cautious about installing Anything that Adams makes. We (when I was working) installed some of their furnaces...nothing short of junk.

    If you search on this site for a post, I did 6 or 7 years ago you will see the problems I went through.

    If their gas burner are anything like there other equipment I wouldn't touch it.

    But that is up to you.

    @EBEBRATT-Ed Looking through old posts. Thanks for the warning. Was that one of their condensing oil furnaces?

    Looks like Superior Boiler/Triad specs their burner as OEM. (???)
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,567
    Mustangman said:

    I personally have never installed a conversion gas burner with atmospheric draft. I really like Carlin EZ Gas with a 9 slot head. I learned a valuable lesson years ago on conversion burners. I have a system that had 3 Axman Anderson NPO oil boilers to convert. I called Axman for a burner recommendation on what gas burner to use.
    I installed the burners as per instruction. I noticed there seemed to be a delay in the ignition and it would light very hard at times. I called the factory and actually talked to the owner / designer. He asked me about draft. I had plenty of draft. He had me put the test kit on. He was thinking that I was on the wrong side of the combustion curve. After more adjustments, we lit it off and I swear, I ran for the door. Thought it was blowing up. It actually jumped around the pad. Scared the hell out of me. We ended up switching burners. I won't throw stones at any manufacturer, but I will tell you when we switched burners, it was 100% improved. The problem ended up being the head that came with the burner. They recommended a 9 slot head. They fire with a swirling action which is perfect for a horizonal pass type boiler. The combustion gasses are not loading up the chamber causing a lack of combustion air and poor combustion.
    AA boilers are made in my home town so there are a lot CP0s around and many want gas. I don't think any kind of atmospheric burner would work well with horizontal pass boilers.
    I was surprised to see the efficiency rate of these converted boilers. Solid mid 80s on just about all of them. Good luck

    Curious as to which burner you ended up using?

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,282
    @delcrossv

    no just a standard oil fired furnace horizontal mount in a commercial garage.
  • Mustangman
    Mustangman Member Posts: 115
    Believe it or not, it was the first Carlin EZ gas I installed. Its pretty much the only conversion burner I use. You have to order them with a 9 slot diffusers. Carlin has worked well on just about every brand and model out there . Add in the experience I had, hands on, when I thought judgement day was here for me... I will stay with Carlin. I have installed Midco gas conversion burners and Wayne. Both good units. I can tell you the Wayne gas conversion is the one I couldn't to run on a an Axman horizonal tube boiler. I really believe the issue, has to do with timing. I will save what I learned for another time as its a bit long winded.

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