Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

Education of our young people

Jackmartin
Jackmartin Member Posts: 190
I am going to rant about my favorite subject, yup education. My truck woulded start and hell I don't know anything about the thing ,now what?? I mentioned it my oldest son and he has a friend who decided to enter vehicle technology when my son went into Electrical engineering, he told me dirt is not his thing. The youngster comes over drags out electronic gizmos I have never seen before,hooks up his laptop with his Pico tester and goes to work. My son and this young genius speak the same language,nerd, and fifteen minutes later they are off to the auto supply. He tells me the feedback control for something was not sending the correct signal, installs this thing and the truck is like new. I ask this youngster where he learned all this, he said well in trade school we all do!!! Why aren't our kids being taught this stuff too??? The trade is now all electronic and command driven, the kids I have worked with were great at games, technical stuff my sons friend learned in school, Uhm what's that? We are letting our future down you don't have to be nerdy like my son and his buddy, you just have to have the chance to learn, I am talking to you TRADE SCHOOLS, quit failing our youngsters they should have computer knowledge like the young mechanic that fixed my truck. The trade is NEWS getting more and more technical let's get on the damn bandwagon. Stay Well and love your kids in the end they will be all you have. Jack

Comments

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,544
    edited September 16

    I am going to rant about my favorite subject, yup education. My truck woulded start and hell I don't know anything about the thing ,now what?? I mentioned it my oldest son and he has a friend who decided to enter vehicle technology when my son went into Electrical engineering, he told me dirt is not his thing. The youngster comes over drags out electronic gizmos I have never seen before,hooks up his laptop with his Pico tester and goes to work. My son and this young genius speak the same language,nerd, and fifteen minutes later they are off to the auto supply. He tells me the feedback control for something was not sending the correct signal, installs this thing and the truck is like new. I ask this youngster where he learned all this, he said well in trade school we all do!!! Why aren't our kids being taught this stuff too??? The trade is now all electronic and command driven, the kids I have worked with were great at games, technical stuff my sons friend learned in school, Uhm what's that? We are letting our future down you don't have to be nerdy like my son and his buddy, you just have to have the chance to learn, I am talking to you TRADE SCHOOLS, quit failing our youngsters they should have computer knowledge like the young mechanic that fixed my truck. The trade is NEWS getting more and more technical let's get on the damn bandwagon. Stay Well and love your kids in the end they will be all you have. Jack


    Roughly two weeks ago my 2019 direct injected car had a huge issue.
    I spent 15 minutes pulling codes and thinking, decided a coil had failed so I changed the coil and all 4 plugs. No dice, had to leave it at work for two days. Ordered a HP fuel pump based on what I felt was going on and that solved the issue.

    I've never been to school for cars or anything automotive and I knew absolutely nothing about direct injected gas cars before that incident.

    I did go to trade school for electrical work and networking later on though but never pursued either.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 4,237
    I went to technical trade school in 1976 and learned all about the RA117A primary safety Control with 90 second safety timing. And there was this new fangled thing that was connected to a cadmium sulfide thing-a-ma-gig that actually looked at the fire. A primary Safety Control that has eyes! What a wonderment!
    Edward Young
    Retired HVAC Contractor from So. Jersey.
    Services first oil burner at age 16
    P/T trainer for EH-CC.org

    MikeAmannPC7060
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,637
    Probably the crank position sensor. Not a whole lot else sensor wise that will cause it to not run at all but if you don't know where the crank is you don't know when to fire the plugs or the injectors. Most of the rest you can take a close enough guess at to make it at least run poorly. Popular mechanics used to have articles on this sort of stuff but they stopped around 10 years ago and that was when I decided to not renew my subscription after around 25 years.

    Now it is in various internet message boards and other web sites.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 17,510

    I am going to rant about my favorite subject, yup education. My truck woulded start and hell I don't know anything about the thing ,now what?? I mentioned it my oldest son and he has a friend who decided to enter vehicle technology when my son went into Electrical engineering, he told me dirt is not his thing. The youngster comes over drags out electronic gizmos I have never seen before,hooks up his laptop with his Pico tester and goes to work. My son and this young genius speak the same language,nerd, and fifteen minutes later they are off to the auto supply. He tells me the feedback control for something was not sending the correct signal, installs this thing and the truck is like new. I ask this youngster where he learned all this, he said well in trade school we all do!!! Why aren't our kids being taught this stuff too??? The trade is now all electronic and command driven, the kids I have worked with were great at games, technical stuff my sons friend learned in school, Uhm what's that? We are letting our future down you don't have to be nerdy like my son and his buddy, you just have to have the chance to learn, I am talking to you TRADE SCHOOLS, quit failing our youngsters they should have computer knowledge like the young mechanic that fixed my truck. The trade is NEWS getting more and more technical let's get on the damn bandwagon. Stay Well and love your kids in the end they will be all you have. Jack

    They still would be well served to know how piping, flue, gas lines get sized and installed. While electronics especially digital is critical, water or refrigerant still does the heavy lifting.

    Everywhere I go I see youngsters in the classes, it is turning around as far as the trades are concerned. Will it be fast enough to replace the retirees??
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    EdTheHeaterManScottSecor
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 645
    IMO, NO. The younger generations only know keyboards. None are willing to get their hands dirty.
    Solid_Fuel_Man
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 645
    edited September 17
    Okay then, you are the (one) exception.

    I would LOVE to be proved wrong on this subject.
  • MikeL_2
    MikeL_2 Member Posts: 385
         Regarding education, this brand new organization may be on the right track. Touchatrade.org has a mission that includes helping to develop the next generation of talent in the building trades. 
           I know several members of the Touch a Trade planning team; each are knowledgeable & passionate about the building trades and developing a mentoring program and beyond.
    HydroNiCK
  • MikeAmann
    MikeAmann Member Posts: 645
    edited September 17
    I went to trade school.
    Touch a trade sounds great - and I hope it works. We are all screwed if it doesn't!

    The young men? that I see in public don't have dirt under their fingernails - they wear nail polish. ****?
  • MikeL_2
    MikeL_2 Member Posts: 385
         Women wear nail polish, too. I'm hoping we can attract more women into the skilled trades.....
    Erin Holohan HaskellHot_water_fanGGross
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,637
    Unfortunately, the 30 somethings I know can't change a tire on a car or fix a leak in a bicycle tire. hope it changes fast
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,544
    MikeAmann said:
    Okay then, you are the (one) exception. I would LOVE to be proved wrong on this subject.
    I highly doubt I count as a younger generation anymore.  I'm gen X.


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • JakeCK
    JakeCK Member Posts: 1,045
    Older millennial here who has no problem getting his hands dirty. My brother is gen X. I was pretty close to the cut off. Old enough to remember a time before the internet and everyone having cell phones, and when pagers were a thing. Young enough to have grown up with a keyboard in my hand. 

    I have a picture some where that my father took of me covered in grease and standing in the engine bay of my truck. Mind you I was actually standing on the ground but I was where the engine and transmission would normally have been.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,544

    Unfortunately, the 30 somethings I know can't change a tire on a car or fix a leak in a bicycle tire. hope it changes fast


    It's a bit hard for kids to learn anything when they're not even allowed to play outside.

    Why learn to fix a bike tire when you're never allowed to ride a bike? The reason we learned to fix them is we had a need to fix them. Either you fixed it, or you didn't ride. Right? How many friends did you have that didn't have working brakes on their bikes? Why? Because they got by with their foot and didn't really need the brakes. Had they needed them, they would've figured out a way to get them working.

    If you want kids to learn certain skills they need to have a reason to do so and telling them they should isn't going to cut it.

    This literally applies to everything around us. People do not put effort into anything without a reason and some are far more capable than others.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    PC7060Solid_Fuel_Man
  • Condoman
    Condoman Member Posts: 88
    My grandson went to trade school for manufacturing, then community college and now college for his M.E. degree. He is now comfortable with CAD/CAM and all the digital interfaced machines that make stuff.

    He was annoyed that the washing machine was broken recently and between the Google and handcrafting a tool to get the machine apart was able to fix the washer for the cost of parts. This is behavior not common with 20 YO kids. Good on him. It made me feel the future is not as bleak as I thought.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 6,637
    Condoman said:

    My grandson went to trade school for manufacturing, then community college and now college for his M.E. degree. He is now comfortable with CAD/CAM and all the digital interfaced machines that make stuff.

    He was annoyed that the washing machine was broken recently and between the Google and handcrafting a tool to get the machine apart was able to fix the washer for the cost of parts. This is behavior not common with 20 YO kids. Good on him. It made me feel the future is not as bleak as I thought.

    It wasn't common in boomers either. i learned most of what i know on my own from things like popular mechanics and pbs and message boards and experimenting.

    Of course most of the issues with ameican cars of the 70's and 80's was that most so called professionals didn't understand them so minor problems caused catastrophic failures.
    ChrisJCanuckerGGross
  • Dave Carpentier
    Dave Carpentier Member Posts: 343
    Coming from a fairly poor single parent household as a young teen, I had to learn to DIY to save us money. Fortunately I didnt make any costly mistakes. Back then there was no internet of course, so it was many trips to the library seeking information.
    I have a 20yo thats very hands-on for repairs. He's not afraid to get dirty at all, but I do have to work on the patience aspect.
    30+ yrs in telecom outside plant.
    Currently in building maintenance.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,544
    mattmia2 said:
    My grandson went to trade school for manufacturing, then community college and now college for his M.E. degree. He is now comfortable with CAD/CAM and all the digital interfaced machines that make stuff. He was annoyed that the washing machine was broken recently and between the Google and handcrafting a tool to get the machine apart was able to fix the washer for the cost of parts. This is behavior not common with 20 YO kids. Good on him. It made me feel the future is not as bleak as I thought.
    It wasn't common in boomers either. i learned most of what i know on my own from things like popular mechanics and pbs and message boards and experimenting. Of course most of the issues with ameican cars of the 70's and 80's was that most so called professionals didn't understand them so minor problems caused catastrophic failures.
    That was kind of my point.

    I learned most of what I know on my own.   Schools or not you're not going to force people to learn things.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Canucker
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,518
    This whole "kids these days" is really just old dudes thinking they had everything harder. It's natural to remember things better than they really were. 

    I'm 38, the oldest of the millennials. Several of my classmates (we just had our 20 year reunion) are business owners, and trades people. Some are do-nothings as far as I know. Just like boomers, some were workers, and some weren't. 

    I am self employed, I have a very strong background in electronics (what i went to tech school for) and worked on cars for 10 years. I am an electrician, an HVAC tech, and a mechanic. Licensed and hold certifications for all 3 for what that matters. 

    I have many passions, but one is old cars. I have restored a few, and currently have a 59 Ford which I've post about here before. It is not better than today's vehicles. More beautiful.....YES....better no. But you can fix it yourself, but wouldn't start in sub zero weather, have much power for the size engine, you may likely die in a crash.... People tend to remember things as better than they were. 

    I turn away about 3x the work I take on, for those who want to work, they have work name your price. 
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
    DJD775Larry WeingartenCanucker