Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

Top most radiator spitting

Hello all,

I have read the guide (How to get the best..) and searched around this forum quite a bit.

I have a New Yorker CGS50c steam boiler (about 10 years old) in my basement & 10 radiators total on my first and second floors. The boiler has a BJ-3BM main air vent.

Every radiator has a new air vent (I recently purchased my home & every vent was either stuck or broken or both). The boiler is regularly flushed. I am not sure when it was last cleaned (probably never). The owner's manual provides no good information for maintenance beyond taking measurements on the water's pH & recommends all other maintenance be done by a professional.

I plan to purchase this to clean the boiler. Is that going to be sufficient?

My main problem is, the largest radiator on the top floor hisses and drips slightly. It's not very loud or that bothersome, but I know this is the telltale sign that something is wrong.

I have measured my A-gap, and it appears to be around 30" (I know the minimum is 24"), so I don't think that's the issue.

Here are some photos of the boiler system.






Thank you for reading!

Comments

  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,691
    edited April 2022
    you've got some issues,
    read this next,
    https://heatinghelp.com/store/detail/we-got-steam-heat-a-homeowners-guide-to-peaceful-coexistence
    https://heatinghelp.com/store/

    does the pressure gage return to zero ?
    it is way too high, and should be tripping the safety valve at over 15 psi,
    safety valve should be replaced if gage is reading true,

    the Ptrol needs to be set as low as possible,
    the scale on the right, set it down to between the 2, and the mark below that should be 1, (or at the 10kpa mark),
    set the left scale to 1,

    the looped pipe under the Ptrol, is your pigtail,
    it needs to be checked for clear and free breathing back into the boiler so the Ptrol can detect what the boiler pressure is at,

    the boiler near piping is incorrect
    that can wait for now,

    what vents are on the rads,
    slower is better at the rads,

    if the high pressure is true then all your venting may be compromised and need replacing,

    check that pressure issue first,
    pressure should not be over 2,
    1.5 is more desireable, lower the better.
    known to beat dead horses
    BobCMekkelRichardsmattmia2
  • MekkelRichards
    MekkelRichards Member Posts: 11
    edited April 2022
    neilc said:



    does the pressure gage return to zero ?
    it is way too high, and should be tripping the safety valve at over 15 psi,
    safety valve should be replaced if gage is reading true,

    the Ptrol needs to be set as low as possible,
    the scale on the right, set it down to between the 2, and the mark below that should be 1, (or at the 10kpa mark),
    set the left scale to 1,

    the looped pipe under the Ptrol, is your pigtail,
    it needs to be checked for clear and free breathing back into the boiler so the Ptrol can detect what the boiler pressure is at,

    the boiler near piping is incorrect
    that can wait for now,

    what vents are on the rads,
    slower is better at the rads,

    if the high pressure is true then all your venting may be compromised and need replacing,

    check that pressure issue first,
    pressure should not be over 2,
    1.5 is more desireable, lower the better.

    - I actually own that book already, and have read thru most of it. Love that it exists.
    - I guess I have never bothered to check, but the pressure gage seems to stay always around 17.5psi, regardless if the boiler is dormant or boiling.
    - I just removed & replaced the looped pipe under the PTrol. It was very dirty and most likely clogged. It is now perfectly clean
    - Also adjusted the PTrol to be set to 1 on the left scale & 1.5 on the right scale.
    - After the adjustment, the Internal Syphon gauge still seems to be hitting 20.5 after the boiler's ran for 15mins.
    - I will order a new safety valve if it seems like I need one.
    - I will take note of the near piping. Not able to tell what's wrong though. I have tried comparing to what else I've seen online.
    - Half of the rads have Varivalve vents. The other half have the Home Depot standard adjustable vents

    Thanks a whole ton for taking the time to give a serious reply to this. People like you make the internet a worthwhile place still!
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,691
    the book is a great introduction, an easy read,

    the gage, it may be fouled behind it also, or the gage is bad, you could replace it with another 0-30, required by code and insurance,
    consider adding a low pressure gage at the Ptrol, a 0-3, or 0-5, this will give you a better idea of what's happening with the boiler and Ptrol,

    and as the gage may be fouled behind it, so may be the pigtail,
    the port the pigtail is screwed into, did you check that it was clear and open into the boiler?
    if you remove the gage, and back at the pigtail, check the boiler ports and poke them open if fouled.

    without being sure of the gage operation it's hard to condemn the safety valve,
    but it should blow at or just above 15 psi,
    actually, check what that safety is rated at,
    it must be a 15, for your steam boiler, not a hot water 30,

    again, your vents may be damaged at this point,
    but let's deal with the boiler pressure, or not, first
    known to beat dead horses
  • MekkelRichards
    MekkelRichards Member Posts: 11
    neilc said:

    the book is a great introduction, an easy read,

    the gage, it may be fouled behind it also, or the gage is bad, you could replace it with another 0-30, required by code and insurance,
    consider adding a low pressure gage at the Ptrol, a 0-3, or 0-5, this will give you a better idea of what's happening with the boiler and Ptrol,

    and as the gage may be fouled behind it, so may be the pigtail,
    the port the pigtail is screwed into, did you check that it was clear and open into the boiler?
    if you remove the gage, and back at the pigtail, check the boiler ports and poke them open if fouled.

    without being sure of the gage operation it's hard to condemn the safety valve,
    but it should blow at or just above 15 psi,
    actually, check what that safety is rated at,
    it must be a 15, for your steam boiler, not a hot water 30,

    again, your vents may be damaged at this point,
    but let's deal with the boiler pressure, or not, first

    I agree, I have learned a ton from it.

    I will get that 0-30psi gauge replaced. I took it off, and there was no blockage behind it. I shone a light in.

    As for a gauge at the PTrol, I would assume this type of setup would be proper? Just ordered a 3psi gauge & will add that in Monday (have to wait for shipping).


    I checked the pigtail port, and it was also clean and open.

    The safety valve says "15 PSIG" on it, so that sounds like it should blow at 15psi. The boiler's 0-30 gauge right now is reading 20, so that gauge must either be bad or the safety valve is bad. I just bought a new 0-30 gauge that should also arrive Monday.

    Thank you!
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,575
    edited April 2022
    The 0-3 or 0-5 psi gauge can go on a tee between the pressuretrol and the pigtail, dont need 2 pigtails. I'd throw a union in there too since it looks like you have to unscrew the pigtail from the boiler with the pressuretrol on it to take it apart to check it now.

    Could be your lowest bidder in China from home depot vent is just bad too. But figure out and lower the pressure.

    The needle in those gauges moves with a little gear on a rack connected to a curved tube that moves slightly with pressure so if the case or the tube gets bent a little the reading will be wildly inaccurate.
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,691
    edited April 2022
    yeah, without the 0-30 returning to 0,
    all bets are in the wind
    (maybe you're doing 2-3 psi between 17 and 20, ????)
    known to beat dead horses
    MekkelRichards
  • MekkelRichards
    MekkelRichards Member Posts: 11
    My radiator that is spitting is the one with the nice Varivalve vent. The rest of the vents in my home seem to work fine. I hear the cheap ones *ping* every once in a while indicating the closing of them. None of them seem to spit either. The Varivalve's do a quick & quiet *whoosh* sound, all of them except this top-most radiator's.

    The new gauges look like they will be here in the mail tomorrow. I will install them before Monday & report back. Thank you!!!!
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,575
    I'm thinking someone tweaked the gauge with the preuuretrol or a wrench while installing or removing the pigtail and pressuretrol.
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,691
    mattmia2 said:

    I'm thinking someone tweaked the gauge with the preuuretrol or a wrench while installing or removing the pigtail and pressuretrol.

    nah, go back and look at the original pictures, "17" before we started the discussion
    known to beat dead horses
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,575
    neilc said:

    mattmia2 said:

    I'm thinking someone tweaked the gauge with the preuuretrol or a wrench while installing or removing the pigtail and pressuretrol.

    nah, go back and look at the original pictures, "17" before we started the discussion
    I think that someone was an installer or tech that broke it and didn't tell anyone.
  • MekkelRichards
    MekkelRichards Member Posts: 11
    Sorry for the extreme delay. I ended up getting deep into many other old home projects since April.

    Here is a photo of how the new gauges are installed. Let me know if I have installed them incorrectly. My top most rad's vent is still spitting / hissing / staying open longer than necessary.

    I will provide a detailed reading of the gauges tomorrow when the system kicks on again.

  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 1,377
    Hello @MekkelRichards

    - Half of the rads have Varivalve vents. The other half have the Home Depot standard adjustable vents
    My top most rad's vent is still spitting / hissing / staying open longer than necessary.

    I think the Varivalve units are known for that behavior maybe swap it with one of the home Depot vents.
    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
    MekkelRichards
  • SteamingatMohawk
    SteamingatMohawk Member Posts: 997
    How high does your pressure go with the new gauge on line?

    You don't mention the sizes of the vent valves. Varivalves do not shut off venting completely (a widely known fact on HH), the minimum is about a #5 radiator vent. What is yours set at? What about vents on the mains?

    The low pressure gauge is a good move, but it should only be reading pressure when someone is at the boiler, so I highly recommend you install an isolation valve for just that gauge.

    If your spitting vent is on a higher floor and far from the boiler, you may need some venting at the end of the riser, just before the radiator itself.

  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,103
    Just wondering have you looked at the installation manual either left w the boiler or on line . The boiler is not piped correctly as per the manual and this in turn drastically effects system performance . Vari vents are the worst and should be replaced w any thing else , gorton comes to mind . The pressure gauge is shot and should be replaced and a additional 0 to 3 psi gauge the 0 -30 is a code requirement the 0 -3 is to see what’s going on . The way it’s piped I would highly doubt anyone has really cleaned and flushed the boiler out and either skimmed or wanted . The whole sight glass assembly and low water cut off probe should be removed and cleaned and re installed aside from test the lwco for proper operation. The safety valve should be removed and it’s piping to the boilers block checked to ensure it is not clogged . Without really going to the manual and seeing what looks like a 3 inch existing main the way it’s piped I know that that system is not seeing steam in the way it was designed to which is dry steam not wet . Even though the boiler has been in place for years doesn’t mean it was performing correctly .
    Peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
    Long Beach Ed
  • MekkelRichards
    MekkelRichards Member Posts: 11

    How high does your pressure go with the new gauge on line?

    You don't mention the sizes of the vent valves. Varivalves do not shut off venting completely (a widely known fact on HH), the minimum is about a #5 radiator vent. What is yours set at? What about vents on the mains?

    The low pressure gauge is a good move, but it should only be reading pressure when someone is at the boiler, so I highly recommend you install an isolation valve for just that gauge.

    If your spitting vent is on a higher floor and far from the boiler, you may need some venting at the end of the riser, just before the radiator itself.

    The new gauges on the boiler are reading (taken while the boiler is heating up. I cranked the heat up 5 degrees and waited until I saw the highest readings):
    - Boiler Main Pressure Gauge: 3psi
    - Pressuretrol Gauge: It maxed out at 3psi and wanted to go further. It then dropped and is now climbing again. This seems bad since the PressureTrol's settings are:
    -- DIFF: 1psi
    -- MAIN: slightly >1psi

    I just purchased the following:
    - isolation valve for the PressureTrol's gauge
    - new 0-3psi pressure gauge for the main boiler gauge and will install once they arrive.

    The top most, spitting, radiator was using this vent model Varivalve 925005-00 Angle VARI-Valve (Heat Timer). I am not sure if this is a #5 equivalent. This vent was set to all the way open. To see if it was just the vent (3rd time the vent's been replaced), I replaced it with a MaidOMist #5 vent and put on the D-sized relief hole. So far, I don't hear it spitting as of right now. (Others have told me the Varivalve was the best vent money could buy, sounds like that's BS).

    The boiler's main vent is a BJ-3BM 3/4" vent. Pictured below:


    Now, what I am worried about are the pressure readings. The PressureTrol gauge seems like it could go to 4 or 5psi, which seems way too high.
    clammy said:

    Just wondering have you looked at the installation manual either left w the boiler or on line . The boiler is not piped correctly as per the manual and this in turn drastically effects system performance . Vari vents are the worst and should be replaced w any thing else , gorton comes to mind . The pressure gauge is shot and should be replaced and a additional 0 to 3 psi gauge the 0 -30 is a code requirement the 0 -3 is to see what’s going on . The way it’s piped I would highly doubt anyone has really cleaned and flushed the boiler out and either skimmed or wanted . The whole sight glass assembly and low water cut off probe should be removed and cleaned and re installed aside from test the lwco for proper operation. The safety valve should be removed and it’s piping to the boilers block checked to ensure it is not clogged . Without really going to the manual and seeing what looks like a 3 inch existing main the way it’s piped I know that that system is not seeing steam in the way it was designed to which is dry steam not wet . Even though the boiler has been in place for years doesn’t mean it was performing correctly .
    Peace and good luck clammy

    Clammy, I just found the owners' manual online with this diagram:


    This is asking a lot, maybe too much, but would you be able to draw over the picture of my setup to show me where the piping should be / what needs to be changed? I can somewhat understand the diagram, but I am not seeing what is different on it versus how mine is setup. I am comfortable ripping out piping and reinstalling, but that diagram seems to be more for a professional / bigger brained man than I.
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,695
    edited December 2022
    This is rough, but basically you want this:




    The purple risers are the steam supply from the boiler going to the horizontal red header. You could have 1 or 2 of these risers of the specified sized pipe depending on the installation manual. They go up, then turn horizontal briefly before entering the header from the side or top.

    The horizontal red pipe is the "header". It slopes gently downward as it goes left in this photo. When it turns downward it becomes the "equalizer" which is where water that might get carried over to the header can exit back down to the boiler.

    The yellow pipe comes off the top of the header and runs to your main.

    The purpose of all this is to separate water from the steam and give any water somewhere to go that is not up into your main.

    The order of these connections to the header is important and purposeful. First the supply (or supplies) from the boiler, then the riser to the main, and then the downturning elbow to the equalizer.

    With your current situation, the water can too easily get "carried up" with the steam into your steam main pipe.
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
    MekkelRichards
  • Chris_L
    Chris_L Member Posts: 336
    I wouldn't worry too much about your boiler piping. Yes, it is wrong, but...

    For your size boiler, the manufacturer says one 2' riser is sufficient. Looks like you have that. The header should be 24" above the water line. Your header, such as it is, is 30".

    I have two boilers with near boiler piping a lot worse than yours. I don't see any evidence of water being carried up with the steam.

    That Varivalve vent you were using, is really aggressive. You say you it is working better with the Maid of Mist. If you need to, put a smaller orifice on the MaidOMist.

    As for the pressure, when you do a 5 degree temperature change, you should expect pressure to build. If it is getting too high, that is a problem with your pressurtrol or the pigtail it is connected to.
  • MekkelRichards
    MekkelRichards Member Posts: 11
    This is rough, but basically you want this: The purple risers are the steam supply from the boiler going to the horizontal red header. You could have 1 or 2 of these risers of the specified sized pipe depending on the installation manual. They go up, then turn horizontal briefly before entering the header from the side or top. The horizontal red pipe is the "header". It slopes gently downward as it goes left in this photo. When it turns downward it becomes the "equalizer" which is where water that might get carried over to the header can exit back down to the boiler. The yellow pipe comes off the top of the header and runs to your main. The purpose of all this is to separate water from the steam and give any water somewhere to go that is not up into your main. The order of these connections to the header is important and purposeful. First the supply (or supplies) from the boiler, then the riser to the main, and then the downturning elbow to the equalizer. With your current situation, the water can too easily get "carried up" with the steam into your steam main pipe.
    I really appreciate you taking the same the explain and make the diagram. I tend to think this is exactly what's happening, and I am getting wet steam. For example, sometimes I can feel literal small amounts of wet steam coming from the vents when the boiler is going. It seems very wet, maybe too wet. 

    So luckily there is a union piece on the near piping so I don't think I have to cut anything, not that I couldn't if necessary. I will focus on ordering the required piping this week and maybe take a crack at installation next weekend.

    Chris_L said:
    I wouldn't worry too much about your boiler piping. Yes, it is wrong, but... For your size boiler, the manufacturer says one 2' riser is sufficient. Looks like you have that. The header should be 24" above the water line. Your header, such as it is, is 30". I have two boilers with near boiler piping a lot worse than yours. I don't see any evidence of water being carried up with the steam. That Varivalve vent you were using, is really aggressive. You say you it is working better with the Maid of Mist. If you need to, put a smaller orifice on the MaidOMist. As for the pressure, when you do a 5 degree temperature change, you should expect pressure to build. If it is getting too high, that is a problem with your pressurtrol or the pigtail it is connected to.
    Since it's wrong, I'm going to fix it, even if the payoff is small, but I'm hoping it's big.

    I'll switch to the smaller orifice on the MaidOMist tomorrow. Considering my PTrol is set to DIFF 1psi, I am assuming neither of my gauges should exceed 1psi? Or is that incorrect logic?

    As a side note, I did install an isolation valve for the PTrol's pressure gauge as requested. 
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,695
    edited December 2022
    It can be difficult to tell if you are getting water carried over into your main. I can always tell because I have installed sight glasses on my piping. These windows into my steam have given me a lot of information. From this I would say:

    - the term "wet steam" is kind of not very good. All steam becomes "wet" as soon as it starts to condense. So what you are seeing at your vent could very well be just condensation that is behaving badly due to overfast venting (as was mentioned earlier in the thread).
    - If your boiler is carrying water up into the main (that is what most people call "wet steam" I think), that is not any problem with your main vent, your radiator vents, your radiator, your radiator supply lines, none of that. That is a problem with your near boiler piping (which you already know isn't right, but I agree with Chris_L it may not be causing you any trouble.

    To summarize, the reason I don't like "wet steam" as a term is people get this notion that the steam might have some droplets of water in it. But that level of water in the steam is not a big deal. It gets separated long before it gets to your radiators. Think of this: Every bit of steam that your boiler generates bubbles up through and is intermixed with water. Do you care exactly where it separates? It is good for it to separate as early as possible, sure, but as long as boiler water isn't actually getting thrown up into your main, you are fine.

    See my video below where I purposely added a little oil to my boiler to show "wet steam". Even this rather shocking level of wet steam didn't negatively affect the performance of my system. The water gets nearly to the main, but you can see it is not really getting fully carried into the main. It is just separating just before the main. I have an earlier video of my old boiler with the bad piping similar to yours and in that one there is gallons of dirty boiler water rushing through the main all the way around to the wet return.

    Also in my other videos you can see that the normal operation of this boiler is that you don't see a single drop of water in those two sight glasses at the bottom. That's the dream.

    https://youtu.be/jvt8qxBaRJU
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,575
    Some have indicated that they knew they were getting carryover of water in to the mains when they return was getting hot early in the cycle from the liquid water circulating through the return before the system had a chance to produce much condensate.
    ethicalpaul
  • Chris_L
    Chris_L Member Posts: 336
    Considering my PTrol is set to DIFF 1psi, I am assuming neither of my gauges should exceed 1psi? Or is that incorrect logic?

    It depends on your PTrol. I see two different ones in your pictures. If you are using the one with the clear cover to limit the operating pressure, it is subtractive and should turn off when the MAIN pressure is reached.

    If you are using the grey PTrol and it is additive, it should turn off at the differential plus the cut-in pressure.

    But this assumes that the markings on the PTrol are accurate. And they usually aren't. There are threads on this site for calibrating the grey PTrol. (I am not sure about the other one.)

    And I'd use a home made manometer to check the PTrol setting and your gauge for accuracy. Just hook a clear hose up below the water line and compare the height of the boiler water in the hose with the level in the gauge glass to find your pressure in inches of water.
  • MekkelRichards
    MekkelRichards Member Posts: 11
    Chris_L said:

    Considering my PTrol is set to DIFF 1psi, I am assuming neither of my gauges should exceed 1psi? Or is that incorrect logic?

    It depends on your PTrol. I see two different ones in your pictures. If you are using the one with the clear cover to limit the operating pressure, it is subtractive and should turn off when the MAIN pressure is reached.

    If you are using the grey PTrol and it is additive, it should turn off at the differential plus the cut-in pressure.

    But this assumes that the markings on the PTrol are accurate. And they usually aren't. There are threads on this site for calibrating the grey PTrol. (I am not sure about the other one.)

    And I'd use a home made manometer to check the PTrol setting and your gauge for accuracy. Just hook a clear hose up below the water line and compare the height of the boiler water in the hose with the level in the gauge glass to find your pressure in inches of water.

    I am using the PTrol with the clear cover (the other picture was an example of a gauge setup). So you are saying, the boiler should turn off once the boiler's pressure reaches the number set on the PTrol's MAIN setting (which is ~>1psi)?

    I will setup a manometer. So I hook up the clear tube to the drain and then hold up that tube next to the sight glass (& do the subtraction)?

  • Chris_L
    Chris_L Member Posts: 336
    Yes, with a subtractive pressuretrol, the boiler should cut out at the MAIN setting, and cut back in at (MAIN - Differential). See: https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/151454/ideal-subtractive-pressuretrol-settings

    On your manometer, it is hooked up right, but you want to run the clear tubing up to the ceiling. 1 PSI = 27.7 inches of water, so unless you have a high basement ceiling, you probably don't have space to get up to 3 PSI without running out of tubing. Watch the boiler and be prepared to shut it off before you get scalded if the pressure builds too high.
  • MekkelRichards
    MekkelRichards Member Posts: 11
    edited December 2022
    As suggested, for now, I am going to leave my near piping alone.

    I did a full cleanout of the boiler today. Drained everything out (followed a YouTube video) until the water was crystal clear. I also used a boiler cleaner which seemed to remove even more gunk. I did clean out the PTrol pigtail about 6months ago as well, but I might do that again if the PTrol needs work.

    Replaced a vent today that was starting to stick open (I will bathe it in hot vinegar to use as a backup).

    Also purchased supplies to make a manometer. They should be delivered before the weekend.

    Here is what my gauges are looking like, both maxed out (3+psi). I know I haven't manually tested the pressure with the manometer yet, but I have a feeling this tells me my PTrol is not doing its job or is just broken. If it is broken, is it okay to replace it with another of the same model, or is it actually necessary or very beneficial to replace it with a Vaporstat? I know they can be manually adjusted further with the hex screw on them, but what's the likelihood that needs to be adjusted versus it just being broken?

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,695
    You might want to address that pressure before attempting installation of the manometer or I see a hot shower in your future
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
    mattmia2
  • MekkelRichards
    MekkelRichards Member Posts: 11

    You might want to address that pressure before attempting installation of the manometer or I see a hot shower in your future

    What's my move for that? I already have the PTrol settings set to what they need to be, but the boiler is still running at this overly high pressure. To use the manometer, it sounds like if the boiler is running at something like 5psi, I'd have to have tubing that surpassed the height of the ceiling. This is pointing to a bad PTrol in my calculation.
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,695
    Yeah I agree with you. If the existing gauges are at all trustworthy your Ptrol isn't doing its job, maybe by a lot!

    You only want to hook up a manometer even momentarily (IMO) if your boiler is very well-behaved and has very good low pressure regulation.
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • Chris_L
    Chris_L Member Posts: 336
    Have you tried turning your existing Ptrol down more? Forget the numbers on it, just keep turning the MAIN setting down.

    You have to be careful the mechanism doesn't come apart if you do this (it will on the grey Ptrols) and be sure your cut-in pressure is not too low (or negative) or the boiler won't come back on.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,575
    If you hook up and watch the manometer while the boiler is heating, you can shut it down before the pressure exceeds the length of the tube.
  • AdmiralYoda
    AdmiralYoda Member Posts: 624
    Holy pressure batman! I may have missed this...but if your boiler size is relatively close to the EDR of your radiators I'd go with a 16oz Vaporstat. If you want to be really fancy have a 16oz Vaporstat with a 20oz gauge on one pigtail and a traditional 1.5-5psi Pressuretrol with the 0-3psi and the 30psi gauge on the other pigtail.

    This is precisely my setup, except I have a 0-2psi Magnahelic instead of a traditional 0-3psi gauge. Works great! And my boiler is about 45% oversized so it does tend to cycle on pressure when it gets cold out or during a setback.

    I have my Vaporstat to cut out at about 12-14oz of pressure with about a 10oz differential. My radiators get plenty hot!
  • MekkelRichards
    MekkelRichards Member Posts: 11

    Yeah I agree with you. If the existing gauges are at all trustworthy your Ptrol isn't doing its job, maybe by a lot!

    You only want to hook up a manometer even momentarily (IMO) if your boiler is very well-behaved and has very good low pressure regulation.

    Do you suggest purchasing a Vaporstat L408J 1009 for $300 minimum, or is just another PTrol of the same model as mine ($~50) fine? It sounds like there may be efficiency gains with the Vaporstat, but I can't tell if those gains are high enough to warrant the extra cost or if people just like shiny things.
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,695
    edited December 2022
    Do you suggest purchasing a Vaporstat L408J 1009 for $300 minimum, or is just another PTrol of the same model as mine ($~50) fine? It sounds like there may be efficiency gains with the Vaporstat, but I can't tell if those gains are high enough to warrant the extra cost or if people just like shiny things.


    I don't know enough about your case, this thread has gotten too big for my brain to hold onto, not due to anyone's fault!

    I've seen some oversized boilers work well with a standard pressuretrol, but for me, I don't like burning gas just to build pressure when all my radiators are hot, so my system cuts out much lower than a pressuretrol can do. But I didn't pay Honeywell $300 to do it.

    I think if I were you (and I kind of was a few years ago), I would figure out why that pressuretrol isn't turning off like you expect it to. As others mentioned, something is probably off with the setting or I guess it's possible the pressure mechanism is completely borked.

    I actually have my old pressuretrol I can send you if you want it, I can set it to its lowest working level and you can spin it on there and see how it compares to yours. PM me if you're interested, no charge I'll just send it to you to try out and you can send it back when you're done, or you can send me your broke one and keep mine and I'll operate on it for fun.
    mattmia2 said:

    If you hook up and watch the manometer while the boiler is heating, you can shut it down before the pressure exceeds the length of the tube.

    I agree with you Matt, but what's the point of that? We can all see his pressure is over 3psi right?
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
    MekkelRichards
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,575
    I'd start by confirming that if you disconnect one of the wires from the pressuretrol that the burner does not fire, I would go with the vaporstat, it will give you better control of the boiler. The lower pressure will help with other system issues as well, not just avoiding burning extra fuel.
    MekkelRichards