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Flow turbulence and bending K Copper

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SENWiEco
SENWiEco Member Posts: 159
in Radiant Heating
Seeking advise from the pro's.

I have a 2 questions I am hoping to get advise on.

First a question about a 'blind' tee that will have a temperature probe inserted that is fairly short and will not project into the main stream of the pipe the tee is installed into. My question is, will this blind tee create turbulence? I would like to ensure a good flow into circulator and am trying to keep 10D-12D of straight pipe ahead of the circulator and am wondering if this tee can be within that length of straight pipe (I am running out of space in the room to route everything). See photo.




Second question surrounds bending 1-1/4" Type K pipe. I have seen a lot of different advise online and even on this site, some saying can only be done with mechanical bender and tightly fitting dies, and others saying it can be heated and bent. I have a very small offset (to small to use double 45's) and so I tried a test and bent the pipe after heating with MAP torch. Photo attached. I did not distort the round profile of the pipe and let air cool. Is there a reason not to use this? (i would of course clean it up before soldering, just wanted you to see 'raw' work).




Any advise would be much appreciated.

Sean Wiens

Comments

  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,625
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    On the tee, I'd see about a fitting-style female adapter, that would get you another inch down, maybe into the flow? A CxCxFIPS tee would get you even closer, but that might be brass, not copper. & possibly hard to find locally, but supplyhouse.com is impressive.

    WRT sweeping copper, I don't see any issue doing that. The Dead Men used to do it with black iron pipe.

    SENWiEco
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,637
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    You could use a brass or iron fips tee and mips to copper adapters to get the probe in the flow where it belongs.

    You can also anneal it with a torch, pack it full of sand an bend it that way.
    SENWiEco
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,131
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    Yes you can get a small amount of bend by annealing the copper. Once it starts to egg shape you at the limit.
    The mandrel benders will do hard drawn copper without softening, type L and K. I have a REMS Curvo which will do up to 1-1/4"
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    SENWiEco
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,061
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    Years ago I was hired to bend some Type K hard copper....it was only 1" though.
    I have a hand bender for 1 1/4" EMT thinwall conduit.
    It did do the job. "Hand" bender is deceiving though, this takes a 7' handle and all your body weight.

    It involved 2 90's and an about a 3' offset in a 40' run.
    These were buss bars in a 69KV substation.
    For all that conductivity and it was fused at only 60 amps.

    Reason for the 1" size was being able to span a fair distance between 69K insulators which were more expensive than the copper.

    For 1 1/4" it would have taken a hydraulic shoe bender.

    I did this for 3 substations and as I drive by them, I always think about the job of 40 years ago.
    SENWiEco
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,519
    edited November 2021
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    Why the K tubing instead of L? K is usually used for underground.

    Heating and bending the tubing is fine but you could also adjust your hangers so you could use a 45 and a street 45 to avoid bending.

    As far as a temp sensor in that tee it's not going to sense the correct water temperature . It needs to be in the water flow
    SENWiEco
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,131
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    Some sensors are ok to be strapped on the tube, tekmar uses all strap on. Insulate over it. The wall of copper tube will be about the same temperature of the fluid inside.

    a tee like that may trap air and not actually read the fluid temperature?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    SENWiEco
  • SENWiEco
    SENWiEco Member Posts: 159
    edited November 2021
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    Many thanks all - yes problem is finding parts. I am in West Coast Canada, so can't use the online stores like supplyhouse (I can start in Dec to use a PO box in Washington again, when I no longer need a covid test to get back into Canada). I have been waiting for over 5 weeks just to get a 3/4" copper cross.

    Thanks all for confirming I can bend the copper. I use Type K for all of the mechanical room (and also my custom master shower), as I want this thing to last forever. Not interested in redoing the piping in 20-30 years when the walls thin out.

    I will look into the location of the sensor to see if I can come up with something to get it lower in the stream. If it is in the stream, how much turbulence would it create? Can it be installed within the 'straight pipe length' ahead of the circulator?


    Sean Wiens
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,637
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    SENWiEco said:

    Can it be installed within the 'straight pipe length' ahead of the circulator?


    I wouldn't worry about it on a small system like that.
    SENWiEco

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