CO from Propane Water Heater Killed Vacationing Family?

I heard about that on the news. How tragic. CO detectors saves lives. I always recommend one on any furnace older than 15 yrs. and I carry one with me and offer to install it.

It does say they were overcome by propane not CO. If it was propane there would have had to be something in the condo that would have ignited it. CO ignorance is universal,

Right off the bat, those of us that trained under Jim D knew it was CO spillage NOT the fuel itself
Because it would have ignited at some point. This is why Matt Jr s dorm room has a high sensitive CO MONITOR, and both my wife and I carry the small yellow ones that first responders wear, especially away in vacation. Mad Dog

I have been in several basements with a propane water heater just sitting in the corner with no flue connection whatsoever. Not even close to a chimney. "Been that way for years" is the standard response..... I can tell right away when opening basement door.

Sad. And sadder because with just a little attention it could have been prevented.

Sadly, most people have no idea how dangerous combustion equipment can be if not installed or maintained properly.

I am an electrician as well and the same goes for electrical work. people turn on a switch and the lights go on..they assume everything is ok.

It's not ok

Most of this equipment operates with no problem for years.

Until you take it for granted

Hi, You'll find a few things with this one, but it's well insulated!

Yours, Larry

I agree Ed. I find Most folks see more value in putting their money in to the pretty things:
Cars, furniture, clothes, landscaping. They come to appreciate the mechanicals only after a mishap that causes them major damage and money. I'll give you an example. I spent over an hour last week on an "estimate" to replace
About 90 feet of wet return. I engaged the elderly man who was a retired airplane mechanic in pleasant banter while pointing out that the boiler's #67 LWCO looked like it hasn't been flushed in years and the water heater flue pipe was not fully connected to the chimney breech. He told me no one ever pointed these things out and that the flush valve on the #67 hadn't worked in years. He wanted to change the
Subject I guess and starting taking me on a tour of his house and pride & joys.

Just then his house phone rang and I could hear it was another plumber who wanted to come give him a price right then. "I'm right down the block, can I come now?" It was funny because he panicked and told the guy he wasn't home! Ha ha. I heard guy through the phone. So, I reviewed everything he needed, pointed out safety issues again and gave him a very fair price on the spot and he said he "would let me know."

I waited a few days and followed up. He told me
" the other guy took care of it, and he said YOU were making a big deal over nothing."
I lost the job because I was diligent, honest and forthcoming about the hazards instead of just giving him what he asked for (race to the bottom, what THEY told him he needed)

I wasn't touching the returns with out fixing the two safety issues, so I lost the job. I know in the past, other guys have to told me to just do the job they want and the other issues are their problem. Not taking on that liability. For the longest time, I have pre screened leads and don't do free estimates but this was an elderly gentleman and was one town over. By the way, he showed me his boat and fully restored 57 Belair in the garage and having his kitchen remodeled, but no money for life safety issues! It
Really turns me off how hard it is to be in the Plumbing and heating business, glad I work for someone else during tbe day. No more free estimates for anyone, wasted an hour of my life ain't getting any younger. Mad Dog

I have seen a LP WH in the mud room of a farm house.
The 3" vent only went up thru the ceiling into the fairly tight attic space.
Owner said it had been that way 30 years or so.

Elderly lady had one in her cellar, low ceiling was slightly scorched above. Outside cellar door and no leaky windows.
I noticed it when viewing the house after the lady went to the nursing home.
Son in law install, he would always tell you how "skilled" he was.
She had went 70+ years in her first house without hot water.

@Mad Dog
Unfortunately that's what happens when you try and do the right thing. Sucks

Mad Dog said:

I agree Ed. I find Most folks see more value in putting their money in to the pretty things:

Cars, furniture, clothes, landscaping. They come to appreciate the mechanicals only after a mishap that causes them major damage and money. I'll give you an example. I spent over an hour last week on an "estimate" to replace

About 90 feet of wet return. I engaged the elderly man who was a retired airplane mechanic in pleasant banter while pointing out that the boiler's #67 LWCO looked like it hasn't been flushed in years and the water heater flue pipe was not fully connected to the chimney breech. He told me no one ever pointed these things out and that the flush valve on the #67 hadn't worked in years. He wanted to change the

Subject I guess and starting taking me on a tour of his house and pride & joys.



Just then his house phone rang and I could hear it was another plumber who wanted to come give him a price right then. "I'm right down the block, can I come now?" It was funny because he panicked and told the guy he wasn't home! Ha ha. I heard guy through the phone. So, I reviewed everything he needed, pointed out safety issues again and gave him a very fair price on the spot and he said he "would let me know."



I waited a few days and followed up. He told me

" the other guy took care of it, and he said YOU were making a big deal over nothing."

I lost the job because I was diligent, honest and forthcoming about the hazards instead of just giving him what he asked for (race to the bottom, what THEY told him he needed)



I wasn't touching the returns with out fixing the two safety issues, so I lost the job. I know in the past, other guys have to told me to just do the job they want and the other issues are their problem. Not taking on that liability. For the longest time, I have pre screened leads and don't do free estimates but this was an elderly gentleman and was one town over. By the way, he showed me his boat and fully restored 57 Belair in the garage and having his kitchen remodeled, but no money for life safety issues! It

Really turns me off how hard it is to be in the Plumbing and heating business, glad I work for someone else during tbe day. No more free estimates for anyone, wasted an hour of my life ain't getting any younger. Mad Dog

Yeah, but you won't have to deal with the lawyers when someone gets hurt or killed either.

The "skilled son in law" has since moved away and the lady's has been sold and remodeled.

However the farmhouse (many miles south of me) with the attic vented water heater remained. A few years later the farmer had his wife pick up a WH T-couple 3 days in a row. He called me on the last attempt.
He said the pilot would not stay on. I said you may need a new gas valve. He replied that this was a new gas valve.
But.....4 days before, he had changed it, turned the gas back on and went to light it and had a gas leak on the copper flare connection right under the control valve. It ignited also and by the time he got outside to the only shut off for the entire farm which was on the tank......(100' away for safety purposes of course)....the flame burned for a few seconds and now could he could not keep the pilot on.

Does the installation instructions mention anything about a "one time ECO"?? He read that part to me over the phone and I told him the valve is now no good because it has been subject to a fire.

Why didn't you just get a new LP water heater when the original valve quit?? A new LP WH valve was about 2/3 cost of new WH.
"Because this one has been so good for 40 years!" he replied.
He never called back, I don't know what he did, but he was so stubborn old school that he may have found a way to bypass the open ECO.

Money was saved by not having a gas stop at the WH or venting the WH thru the roof.

I believe years later, both he and his wife passed away at home from Alzheimer's. They were nearly 90.

Has there ever been a mention of low level CO attributed to that disease?

I have to point out that here in the rural area there is no authority you report these situations to concerning LP.
LP suppliers don't want to lose a good paying customer, they want to mind their own business. They may becoming a little more cautious but not as much as they might be required to.

If NG then the supplier may do something or check the equipment.
For LP you can inform/suggest to the homeowner that there are possible dangers. "But it has worked OK for 30 years"

Box store & internet cowboys can install them in a jiff! Why they even give classes on Saturdays and good old YouTube will get you to the rodeo!
Mad Dog

Regarding unvented propane indoors, I used to work for the "blue" pharmacy chain (now been bought out by the "green" chain, you know who I'm talking about) as an overnight pharmacist in the 24 hour store. One night a week they would bring in a crew to clean the store. This one guy would come in with a propane-powered floor buffer. It had an electric starter, he'd plug it in and then yank the plug out once it fired, and then spend the next 45 minutes going up and down the aisles polishing the floors. By the time he was done, the store (which wasn't all that well ventilated to start with) was full of exhaust from that machine, plus whatever propane remained unburnt and came out the tailpipe. I would have to shut the pharmacy department and go outside for fresh air, it gave me a headache and not just from the noise. (And if that wasn't enough CO for him, he'd take a smoke break afterwards...)

"But I have never seen a water heater with no flue connection whatsoever. That's incredible."

I have; in the 1940s in Buffalo, NY. The homeowner was a (steam) locomotive engineer by trade. But he had a gas fired hot water heater and where the flue pipe should have been connected, he had some loose steel wool inserted, but no flue pipe. I asked why, and he said he did not want to waste the heat in winter. I was in, perhaps, sixth grade. So I could not say he was wrong. But I sure could now.