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Moen shower valve gone bad need help with model

GW
GW Member Posts: 4,096
We did a new boiler and indirect water heater, the one-year-old Moen shower valve took a nap on me. Can anyone help me identify this model so I can go get a new cartridge? This valve, you pull straight out for water to come on, and turn right or left for temperature. Thanks

And of course a picture of the new system.
Gary Wilson
Wilson Services, Inc
Northampton, MA
[email protected]
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Comments

  • Leon82
    Leon82 Member Posts: 684
    edited December 2017
    Caldwell. I have the same one.
    Or Kingsley possibly
    GW
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,096
    Is it a basic cartridge? I remember Moen cartridges that did not pull straight out.
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    [email protected]
  • Leon82
    Leon82 Member Posts: 684
    They all use the same cartridge. You but it rough in and can use like 10 different trim kits
  • Leon82
    Leon82 Member Posts: 684
    edited December 2017
    Caldwell may be the big box name.
    Kingsley I think is moen pro.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,454
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • Leon82
    Leon82 Member Posts: 684
    edited December 2017
    Mine pulled straight out after you pull a c clip looking retainer out

    http://pro.moen.com/bathroom/faucets/tub-shower-faucets/kingsley/_/N-683Z1z141vq?Ns=P_Overall_Score&offset=0
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,096
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 15,819
    Leon82 said:
    Which clip is not immediately obvious on the first try... ask me how I know.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Leon82
    Leon82 Member Posts: 684
    edited December 2017
    Caldwell may be the big box name.
    Kingsley I think is morning pro. > @GW said:
    > Your positive there’s only one cartridge?
    >
    > https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001003P74/ref=psdcmw_3226850011_t1_B01DOEGOJO?

    Yi believe there is a lifetime warranty. They may mail a new one out. My pressure spool was missing an oring. I emailed them and they sent a whole spool

    I have a total of 3 mixing valves and all use only one cartridge
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,096
    I’ve done a ton of Moen tub shower valves back in the day. I just don’t recall they handle that pull straight out. Maybe my memory is fading.
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    [email protected]
  • Leon82
    Leon82 Member Posts: 684
    edited December 2017
    Moentrol is pull out and turn for temp.

    Posi temp is only turning I believe
    I think you need to verify this before ordering the cartridge
    kcopp
  • Leon82
    Leon82 Member Posts: 684
    > @GW said:
    > I’ve done a ton of Moen tub shower valves back in the day. I just don’t recall they handle that pull straight out. Maybe my memory is fading.

    Mine all pull out for volume and turn for temp
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,312
    It is a 1 year old valve for shower and not a pressure balance design. Don't flush the WC when you're showering.

    Sounds like the old school Moen cartridge, everything in one unit.
    Probably some grit from changing WH.
    Pull the hairpin up and out.
    It helps to rotate the entire cartridge, not just the shaft, while pulling on the shaft. (new cartridge may come with white nylon rotation tool.)
    I would flush out the valve before reinstall.
    I used to use some foam pipe insulation to slip over the naked valve to direct the water into the shower drain.
    Insert new cartridge....remembering the hairpin clip.
    Check H&C flow, simply rotate shaft 180 to change sides.

    20+ years ago Moen was the one to install, simple, seldom dripped, almost all brass. But the company seemed to get sold to the trimmers and choppers looking for more profit. IMO
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    After only a year, the cartridge will probably come right out. After ten years, how do you explain a half day job?....LOL
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,715
    Moen Posi-temp design. It is pressure balanced. They make a tool to help pull out the cartridge.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,312
    edited December 2017
    Does the Posi-temp design have you pull the knob out to turn the water on?

    I guess I have the Moentrol which requires the knob to be pulled and then left or right for temp. Mine have screwdriver stops behind the plate, handy. But these have not been changed in 25 years.

    There are at least 3 different cartridges that I know of.
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    There's several different types of tools, and when they're bad, you need every one of them, PLUS. Sometimes the guts pull out and leave you with the sleeve stuck in place.
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,715
    JUGHNE said:

    Does the Posi-temp design have you pull the knob out to turn the water on?

    No the posi temp is just turn on / turn off.
    The Moen-trol is the pull out volume valve w/ the turn to adjust temp.
    JUGHNE
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,096
    So I need a Moen troll cartridge?

    Yes I recall twisting and the little white notched tool gadget
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    [email protected]
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,715
    Posi temp cartridge.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,312
    Posi temp is rotate only....starts cold then goes to hot?
    No push in or pull out?
    kcopp
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,312
    But wait, there is more......sometime debris in the spool cause it to stick. Removing and shaking you should hear the inside spool rattle, sometime rinsing and shaking and then retry might fix it.
    GW
  • Leon82
    Leon82 Member Posts: 684
    On the Moen site the moentrol pulls out for volume and turns for temp
    kcoppGW
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,096
    Thanks for the help
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    [email protected]
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,096
    The local vendor does not carry this cartridge. I’m wondering if that might not be the correct number. Any moen wizards out there?

    I’m wondering if it could be the 1200
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    [email protected]
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,096
    Just trying to avoid two trips. At least it’s only eight minutes from my shop. Could be worse
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    [email protected]
  • Leon82
    Leon82 Member Posts: 684
    edited December 2017
    looks like 1225
    http://www.moen.com/shared/docs/exploded-parts-views/t3113pt.pdf

    home cheapo has some in stores it seems
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 15,819
    If you're not in a real hurry (but who isn't, these days!) Moen will usually get a new 1225 to you within 3 to 4 days -- complete with the little white widget to make it easier to get it out...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    Leon82
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,312
    If you call in as the home owner, they used to send one out free.
    They didn't trust the contractors, fearing they would sell it.

    What is the problem with the faucet BTW?
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,096
    yes I'm aware of the warranty, I asked the ho to call it in and (get a free cartridge). In the meantime i would install one of my own. It seems like i do have a bit of a cartridge inventory, I have 3 different parts numbers. 1 is the posi temp and the other two are the skinny ones. I bet I already have what i need.

    Leon that is a very helpful link.

    Jamie yes the white gadget

    J yes I'm all to familiar with the manufactures trusting the ho and not the contractor. So be it.

    The valve is sending mild hot to very hot only.
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    [email protected]
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    Balancing spool?
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,096
    yes, or often called the cartridge.

    or, are you saying this valve have more parts than just the cartridge? That would be odd, yet I'm not familiar with this valve at all.
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    [email protected]
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,189
    If you pull out the guts, leaving the sleeve, you can use a tap (1/2"?) a bolt and some washers and a socket to build a home made gear puller, That might save tearing out the wall to replace the entire valve.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    kcopp
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,096
    Bob that's a fine idea. I got jammed on one other occasion (water heater filling up, t-s valve takes a nap). Luckily it was my own (rental) property. A Delta 1300 series cartridge froze up on me, it was only 5 years old. It was one of the most miserable experiences ever! I'm not sure if this trick would have worked, yet next time i will try it.

    I need to start getting in the habit of filling the heater 1st, yet i don't like to run the water through the puker.
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    [email protected]
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 8,312
    The Moentrol and the Positemp balancing valves have a cartridge that contains an internal spool that must be free to shift as the pressure changes for the hot or cold supply.
    The spool must be free to move.
    Perhaps some debris of soldering got inside to jam it.
    GW
  • Leon82
    Leon82 Member Posts: 684
    If you look at the exploded drawing there is a separate port for the spool.

    Also you can shut the water off at the valve body with the 2 end screws with jamb nuts to replace them. Makes it Easy to flush with 1 person
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,189
    @GW I have to fess up to seeing that hint on youtube, it came from a well seasoned plumber. I've kept it in mind because ny Moen is 40years old and you just know it's going to be a bear when I have to go after that sucker.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,096
    Leon, I never touch the stop valves, that's just me. Right to the main. If the main is poo then i would try my luck with the stops
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    [email protected]
    kcopp
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,470
    @GW
    I know the Posi-temps have a separate balancing spool. If a valve has integral stops, I'd use them before the main. Using the main can create the same problem you're dealing with now, in a different location.
    GW
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