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Propress failure.

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Harvey Ramer
Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
in THE MAIN WALL
This just in. Never happened before, never hope to see it again.

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  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,835
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    Wow- how much extra time and money is that gonna cost you?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,626
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    Tool, procedure, or fitting failure?
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    It cost to much extra time and money. What a pita.

    It was a fitting failure. Didn't become apparent till a year or 2 later.
  • Tom_133
    Tom_133 Member Posts: 884
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    Ive had one fitting failure and but sadly I have only done a total of 200 fittings. It was on the center section of a 3/4 tee right behind the branch. you could see that it happened in the forming process. I don't know if they press them or stretch but mine happened at the factory and cost me some dollars!!

    Sorry to see that Harvey, I guess the old adage still remains "everything has its weaknesses"
    Tom
    Montpelier Vt
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,137
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    What a bizarre stack of fittings! To get from 1/2 to 3/4" copper, pump to pipe?

    I wonder what tongs were used to squeeze that fitting, the imprints look unusual.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • delta T
    delta T Member Posts: 884
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    I had some failures on two elkhart press MIP's too. And, to clarify, no the leak was not from the threads, the fitting cracked perpendicular to the pipe an 18" above the o ring about a year after installation.
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
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    I know HR, sweat, press, and thread, all in 4"!
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,801
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    Oh no....Looks like a jaw issue..From here anyway....I do not like progress on looks alone...But in today's world I would use it if I was worried about fire with tourch ....viaga fitting?
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    OK, ok. So it's apparent that the fitting art will need an explanation. Lol Made sense at the time. Still does. The pump that was there before was a CI 007 with standard 3/4" threaded flanges. I told the ho it's got to go and we put in a real dhw circ. It's up in the ceiling. Not a good place for a torch. The other side had a check sweated in directly after the 1/2 by 3/4 male adapter, so no room to cut it off and put in a 1/2 X 3/4 reducing press coupler. I yanked the pump, unscrewed the flanges, sweated 3/4 stubs on the pump, slipped the female press adapters on the stubs, put it in place and screwed the press adapters on the copper adapters, and then press press and I was done.

    There you go. And I won't forgive you anytime soon for making me do all that extra typing. Lol

    Its not a tool issue. I've been using the same tool and jaws for years. It's a fitting issue. My guess is the fitting somehow got hardened to much and cut and cracked on the press.
    GordyBob Bona_4
  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
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    Lol. I put in that UFT80 last week, prefabbed the supply onto the boiler on the ground, it ended up being 4" lower than the existing piping once hung. Not even thinking, I'm offsetting with 2 - 90s. Ugh :)
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    Is it my eyes or is the depressed area of the crimp in the failed area gone? Or just dis colored?

    I would say your suspicions are correct Harvey. Question is did the fitting get hardened to much from Factory, or handling? We all know what happens to soft copper, and brass through work hardening.
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    @Gordy
    Your eyes are not deceiving you. It's seeping out of the crimp indentation.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,137
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    Have, or will you send it to the manufacturer for analysis?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    Is it possible that one of the jaws were fouled with material on it. Thus causing it to depress that crimp beyond limits.

    I know it's a stretch, and that material would have to be harder than the brass.. it's all I got......
    j a_2
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,432
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    I had an Apollo copper 90 fail on me one time last year. Of course I was in a crawlspace and had to crawl out about 200' to get another one. That was a copper 90
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    hot rod said:

    Have, or will you send it to the manufacturer for analysis?

    I guess maybe i should send it in. They would probably be interested in determining the cause.

    Gordy, there was nothing on the jaws. It was strictly a fitting failure.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    I'm sure you would be interested too.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,137
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    Harvey Ramer said:

    hot rod said:

    Have, or will you send it to the manufacturer for analysis?

    I guess maybe i should send it in. They would probably be interested in determining the cause.

    Gordy, there was nothing on the jaws. It was strictly a fitting failure.

    It can really help a manufacturer get a handle on a potential problem if they can do forensic work ups.

    Could be a bad alloy batch, forging or machining problems, tooling out of spec.

    Whatever the cause the sooner they find those the better chance of making a correction.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,801
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    What's the manufacture of the fitting,and jaws used to do the crimp....Do the pro press tools need factory checking after so many presses..Seems I remember something about that they went down on auto shut down after x amount of presses....
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    Good point @ja seems though the press would be less from wear on the jaws.
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,801
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    Just seems out of the norm..to me...curious about what brand fitting and what make tool was used....
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,432
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    Its a manufactured product.... how many times have we seen sand holes in a malleable fitting or a mis-made copper or PVC fitting.... Not normal but it does happen. Certainly a pain in the butt. It would be nice if the Mfg were to comp you some $$.
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,801
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    Would he compensate you in Yen,or Won, or Pesos....lol.
  • Paul Pollets
    Paul Pollets Member Posts: 3,656
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    Send the manufacturer of the fitting a bill. CC the wholesaler you bought the fittings from.
    SWEIkcopp
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    I looked for the fitting the other day. It's already disappeared. I'll be taking this one on the chin. I have also run across 1" 90's that didn't actually fit over the pipe. I only buy Viega for fittings. I use some other brands for valves and components. Primarily webstone.
  • Tom_133
    Tom_133 Member Posts: 884
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    I am sure all of you know this but just in case. If you buy a preassembled copper manifold that has been make with a T drill and then brazed, even with L copper don't use a progress fitting. I did and it wiggled, so I called the manufacturer of the manifold and he said "that we can't use propress with his manifolds" something about the brazing making the copper to flexible. He also said he sent a memo to all his wholesalers about the problem. That was a few hundred dollar whoopsie!
    Tom
    Montpelier Vt
    j a_2
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,801
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    @Tom, it does get crazy with all the new and different technology,,,,It stinks that you had to eat that redo...Just my opinion, but, there will be more to come....Manufactues in my opinion care only about the bottom line...
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    Harvey Ramer said:

    I looked for the fitting the other day. It's already disappeared. I'll be taking this one on the chin. I have also run across 1" 90's that didn't actually fit over the pipe. I only buy Viega for fittings. I use some other brands for valves and components. Primarily webstone.

    You will find it when looking for something else
    ;)
    Solid_Fuel_Man
  • Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating
    Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating Member Posts: 1,361
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    I've said it before and I'll say it again "You can take my soldering tank away, when you can pry it from my cold dead hands"...
    Thanks, Bob Gagnon
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
    Solid_Fuel_Man

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