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15 seconds .... Recycle(60sec) ....runs

hedgehodge
hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
As the title states, that is myboil burner operation.

I've had parts replaced for free from service contract but feel they are going to drop me soon lol. Service tech REPLACED aquastat relay, motor and primary control. They said my flue piping being 26 gauge was bad and needed 24 , so I did it, removed tape and put three screws in each, replaced barometric damper that was cemented shut from last owner. Had cleaned, new Roth oil tank 10ft above boiler and two line feed since cold here and outside lines.

I just bought this house and am having issues with my boiler. Just noticed tonight that my flue dumps straight into my chimney (I bought three carbon monoxide detectors). I have a three year old and a preggers wife of 3 months. Soooo I am stressing beyond belief , PLEASE HELP.

Sometimes when it kicks off for the recycle it smells real bad in the utility room(with my washer in finished basement). Also where my kitchen is(small house).

Any ideas why my burner starts for 15 seconds, turns off and starts again then finishes ?

Before recycle operation on new primary it would start ...pause mid cycle for 3-7 seconds ....and start again and finish.

Knock on wood, haven't had to press the button of doom yet.
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Comments

  • Paul S_3
    Paul S_3 Member Posts: 1,257
    Call your oil company back and tell them to solve this problem.....or find a competent contractor to do so....where are you located?
    ASM Mechanical Company
    Located in Staten Island NY
    Servicing all 5 boroughs of NYC.
    347-692-4777
    [email protected]
    ASMHVACNYC.COM
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/asm-mechanical-company
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    New haven county CT
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    You may have a zone issue causing short cycle? Losing prime periodically? Sounds like a fuel supply problem to me. Make sure the Roth supplies suction system is not in use. Use copper all the way, no compression fittings, filter should be mounted on the burner, etc. Post some pics
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,881
    It's odd that all those parts had to be replaced. Sounds like it's not set up right, and the smell is un lit oil burning in the off cycle.
    I would hound the company that did the work to come out and check everything properly. I'd bet you spent a lot of money on that 'repair' and they should make it right.
    steve
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    They are coming out today again for third service call possibly with a manager /hides.

    Filter is next to burner...how could that be causing issues, is that the fix?
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,655
    Could be an oil supply problem. Is the tank located above or below the burner?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    Don't mind my mess, that flue dumps straight into fchimney without a liner....found that out last night
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    Tank located about 6ft above (outside on level ground ), boiler in basement utility room. About 12 ft of oil line outside plus what you see inside
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    New piping that is 24 gauge I'll get pics of shortly minus elbows ATM , still thinner 26 gauge --guy said it would have caught fire before winters end if left it all 26 gauge ....hmmm?
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    Also last pipe where goes into chimney still 26 gauge
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,664
    edited November 2016
    I suspect a draft or chimney issue because:
    1. your getting a smell
    2. Your old barometric damper was cemented closed
    3.

    With that type of issue they (oil Co) should

    1. Make sure boiler and chimney are clean and the combustion chamber is in decent shape.
    2. Make sure the burner is fired with the smallest nozzle allowed by the boiler/burner and combustion test results. If you have borderline draft issues less input will help.
    3. make sure the burner end cone is not burned of and is the correct size
    4. Make sure the boiler has a way to get adequate combustion air. It takes about 1800 cubic feet of air to burn 1 gallon of oil
    5.

    the smoke pipe should be 24 gage, but telling you it would burn down is a stretch.

    I suspect they don't have the controls set correctly which may be causing your short cycling
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 5,881
    The oil line looks ugly, lots of fittings. First thing I would do is to switch it to one continuous pipe for the oil line, add an OSV, & properly secure it.
    Also is the oil line going thru the wall right next to the flue pipe?
    I think you're on/off problem may be something as simple as some loose wire connections. If it happens while the tech is there he should be able to narrow it down. Have the tech ohm out the solenoid valve.
    Also, how big is that room? I see what looks like a radon system, and a clothes dryer.
    steve
    billtwocase
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    I don't know where to begin or where to end here. You don't need a 2 pipe system for one, what is the height of the chimney two, what is that connection the oil line is tied into by the wall, a check valve? what nozzle are they running in that, how is the transformer and electrodes, what is the pump pressure, should be 140 PSI, are the lines in the tank copper to 2 inches of the bottom for both supply and return, how hood are their flares, and as Steve mentioned, that dryer is no help. I could go on because this whole set up needs some professional TLC, and I don't think the previous owner's company was cutting it
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,224
    You can also pull up the error history on the primary control. That might prove to be informative.
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    Sooo he was just here for two hours, it's so hot in here it still hasn't turned on again for an hour yet. He put the digital control there to have that history and readings.

    He was saying the cad eye ohms was only like 380 and tried a lot from different nozzle, new nozzle line. He checked draft etc with fancy tools etc. watched flames ,adjusted more yadda yadda. He was able to get it cad to 560-600 by slightly bending eye . Was burning really clean he said.

    Yes that is an osv(?) valve on the supply linex2

    The chimney I'm going to have cleaned since no liner .

    Yes those are lines just ran in existing sill plate where old one was...right by the flue.tgey have some poly coating that's orange?

    Room is only like 650 cubic ft so I leave the door open until I buy a louvered door.

    Yes radon fan but have to replace it outside, washer and dryer too.

    /crosses fingers
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    Nozzle in now is .85 80A.

    Two pipe he said I wouldn't have freezing issues since it's exposed outside in poly coated with pipe wrap for like 12 ft and warmer to plug in if I choose to
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    null
    Pretty certain I saw him strip back copper pipe and measure to near bottom instead of that plastic supply line I read that sucks with Roth tanks.



    OMG it did it AGAIN
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    First is, the Ohms were not an issue at 380, second, that OSV has to go in this situation, third, the 2 pipe does nothing for an outside tank, treatment/additive starting in late September and thru until Spring does. The chimney height with a run like that is more critical than whether or not it is lined. Is it an external chimney? What was his combustion readings after he was done? What is the breech and over fire draft readings?
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    It's a chimney that runs to outside of house attached to home? So one wall of chimney is flush with outside wall. If that makes sense.

    Why would I not was an osv valve on the supply line, how would you stop the flow of oil to service the oil filter etc? Granted there are two within 6 ft of each other. But if one goes there is a backup

    Is two lines going to hurt anything? They were just installed and all new lines? I want a tiger loop in future but for now I just paid for the tank-lines. None are buried anywhere. More filter changes needed? Just add the sludge treatment stuff to tank per directions, so doesn't freeze?

    Tank and lines are two weeks old about, minus line from osv to osv by oil filter (no idea why didn't make it one osv just to oil filter
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    It started after I bled a zone of air i believe OR after the tank and lines were installed. Can't recall which.

    Possibly zone purges, because it was so bad one night. A zone decided to UNairlock on its own,my bedroom. All the air got in system. then next day I bled both zones and got 95% air out. Sounded like a waterfall in bedroom.

    So it could have been either of those because they happened pretty much the same day, was fine before this
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    I'm not fighting you at all just curious, been learning since day one of homeownership-short sale as is multifamily, thanks
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    It was really tough to pull down the zone head levers, could this be the cause? He is coming back again today to swap out the zone heads
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    You have a fuel supply problem. Once there is a flame failure, the control goes into recycle. They should have installed a positive shut off, and a thermal valve at the tank, and if it was Mass, one as it enters the basement. Google "Hot" 4 in one fuel treatment, or any fuel treatment that disperses water, sludge, prevents gelling, etc. I use Super Heat with great results. I would say your problems are the result of the oil line/tank project, and not a zone problem. Time to find a knowledgeable tech
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    Lol the issue stumps the boss, two managers and three techs.

    They are coming tomorrow to replace the pump since the oil delay valve is prob going and it's so old to replace just that.

    He went back to a 8184 that is new and still issue. But now it doesn't "recycle" so when it pauses and starts it smell a like your behind a diesel truck that just floored it and blows spot at you....since the dampers opens when it pauses and starts for a few seconds.
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    I have some Hercules fuel oil sludge treatment I'll put in tomorrow. It's just mineral spirits on active ingredients lol ?
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    Some of this sounds like my issues....last comment of flare not tight at tank hmmm

    http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2392416/beckett-afg-oil-burner-problem
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,224
    OK, so you just had the tank replaced. What was the reason? Was the old tank getting water or dirt and debris or anything like that? The reason I ask is because one of the most difficult oil burner problems I ever had to deal with was loss of lubrication in the oil pump bearings. It was caused by water problems with the oil. I corrected and remedied the water problem, yet the burner would periodically keep kicking off on a safety. Finally, one day I decided to stay with it till it tripped to try and determine the cause. It took about 2 hrs. of just sitting there taking readings that all appeared normal, till it finally tripped and I pinned it down. The previous water problem had caused the damage and yet it would rune fine unless the burner had longer than normal run times. After I changed the pump, the problem was solved. See the loss of lubrication didn't show up unless the burner had longer run times. The longer it ran, the more the bearings would heat up and cause the metals to expand restricting movement and increasing friction. That would ultimately trip out the burner. But by the time I got there, everything would appear normal.

    This might not be the problem but it is something to check into.
    SWEI
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    Harvey is right with the pump being suspect. Sounds like they are going to replace it, hopefully with a Clean-cut. A simple vacuum gauge would help the to get answers. The sad part is that they are "stumped" by this. The problems are so clear in your pics
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
    and they put an R8184G on it? They closed the door on pre and post purge, lengthened the safety timing, ensured that it will not lock our regardless of flame quality, and so on. Maybe they should try a RA117? Make sure the additives you put in are the right ones, and the ratio correct
    SWEI
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,655
    Anyone who downgrades from a 15-second electronic control to a 45-second R8184G should not be in the business.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    I just checked again and ffs, did it again.

    I replaced the tank because it had a line leak and old indoor tank outside leaning and it did have water issues I believe.


    Wow this setup scared the crap out of me, I normally doesn't just turn on with flame right off the bat, first circulator then fan I guess (loud) the. Can hear flame kick on after a few seconds.

    Now it's just like HELLO I'm on ****?
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    Just turned on for like 30 seconds and off !?!? Soooo done
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 12,664
    @billtwocase , I used to like the RA117A & RA 817A better than the RA116A. Even if I didn't use it for intermittent ignition when the ignition relay dropped out you new it had proved the flame
    billtwocase
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    edited November 2016
    Most recent visit and video of happening after most recent visit still.

    http://vid755.photobucket.com/albums/xx195/hedgehodge/IMG_1472_zpsdpm2bmzb.mp4
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,655
    edited November 2016
    That burner is way out of tune. Excess air is way too high, and the CO2 is way too low. This can sometimes cause light-off issues.

    You need someone who knows how to set up a burner. Try the Find a Contractor page of this site- go to Main Site, then Find a Contractor and follow the directions.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    billtwocase
  • burnerman_2
    burnerman_2 Member Posts: 297
    Do You Have a Honeywell Mercury Thermostat ? If so change it out. Problem solved I have Had this Issue before The Mercury tips over makes contact tips back then tips over and stay there til Thermostat is satisfied
  • hedgehodge
    hedgehodge Member Posts: 29
    It was fine before with thermostats though ? I mean I can but ....
  • burnerman_2
    burnerman_2 Member Posts: 297
    The H/W Round Is it Mercury ? Pop the cover is there dust on the Bulb ?
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,655
    Thermostats wouldn't be causing this problem. The burner was not shutting down during these recycle periods with its proper control, and it does not shut down during these flame failures with the R8184G (which should be removed and the previous control put back). So the thermostats are not interrupting the call for heat.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
    billtwocaseHatterasguySWEI