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Munchkin 80m (R1) boiler issues (Boston)

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ChootarLaal
ChootarLaal Member Posts: 25
edited November 2015 in Gas Heating
hello
i have a Munchkin 80m (R1) boiler and have had some loud roaring/vibration noise come at startup, sometimes it stays for ~1min, sometimes a few seconds. i had my plumber troubleshoot it and he said there is a ceramic disk that is broken inside the combustion chamber. 7250P-160, ceramic target wall.

anyone know where to get it? i'm in Boston. my plumber says his supply house doesn't carry it. i did find them online but i need to get it today or tomorrow, i can't go too long without heat or hot water, i have 2 small children. luckily its warm this week.

also in the past 1 year i have had to replace the blower motor, and the water pressure switch. i will update this thread if i have any issues in the future for informational gathering thread.

also, while he is replacing the ceramic wall, is there anything else he should be replacing as a regular maintenance item?


Comments

  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,062
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    Were there any "coffee grounds" inside the heat exchanger?

    With that rear target wall out it is a good time to flush SS coils with water & cleaner. You want to be sure the condensate drain is clear & flowing.
    ChootarLaal
  • ChootarLaal
    ChootarLaal Member Posts: 25
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    yes there were "coffee grounds" when he replaced the blower motor. i remember he vacuumed them, roughly 6 months ago. what cleaner should he use?
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,062
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    The only Munchkin I installed and service is a 199,000 BTUH from 2004. The install manual recommends CLR spray cleaner applied, brushed with nylon brush, (never steel) and rinsed down thru the condensate drain.
    What I do is remove the rear wall target ceramic insulator, water will do it no good. I vac out grounds; rinse with garden hose spray, (you need good control on the pistol nozzle as there is a small drain in the bottom) then spray with CLR, brush, rinse.
    Then with an old credit card I slip the card between each coil to cut out any crud. The first time I carded the coil I had to cut small notches in the card to "saw" crud out. Keep rinsing this down the drain. I run the "card saw" around between every coil, maybe twice. There are about 8 to 10 supporting tie wires on the back side of the coil that you can't see. Don't try to saw those thru with your card ;) This card cleaning is time consuming on a 199, but yours is smaller.

    One of the main problems with this design was blocked drain. The condensate backs up in the bottom of the HEX, the back wall gets wet and will eventually crack or crumble. The front wall gets wet and shorts out the flame sensor. Factory even recommended gouging out a little insulation around FS and spark assembly in the event the front insulation gets damp. I assume you have a bottom drain trap, don't unhook it, but squeeze it to milk out any deposits....before starting major water rinse. I was fortunate to have mine 16" off the floor.

    The condensate produced by the boiler must drain down between the bottom section of the coils and leave thru the rubber drain/trap.
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/96871/munchkin-noise

    found this one from back in 06.

    Maybe the gas/air ratio on low fire (start up)?
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    j a_2
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,766
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    Call HTP and ask for the part number for the complete parts kit for the boiler . Everything in one box . Should not take long to get seeing as HTP is in New Bedford .
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
    4Johnpipe
  • wcs5050
    wcs5050 Member Posts: 131
    edited November 2015
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    Fw webb, Portland Group, or Ferguson can get parts from Emerson Swan for HTP. Day or two.
    Rich_494Johnpipe
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,062
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    While you are waiting for parts, I would certainly insure that the coil spaces are clean and the drain is working well. Then install new parts and check operation. All issues I had were caused by plugged/slow drainage which damaged some parts. But the drain was the initial problem for me.
  • ChootarLaal
    ChootarLaal Member Posts: 25
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    Drain is perfectly clean and not clogged, the ceramic target wall was cracked and broken, replaced it, no resolution.

    The vibration noise is sometimes 2-3 secs, and sometimes 1-2 min.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,062
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    Are you on natural gas or LPG? Has anything at all changed with the gas supply system?

    Did the noise start after the blower was changed?

    See the post by GW above.

    Your cleaning efforts were not in vain, standard required maint for a mod con boiler.
  • ChootarLaal
    ChootarLaal Member Posts: 25
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    Noise just started. NG. Gas supply is the same.
    How can I find someone who is familiar and works on Munchkins in Boston?
  • ChootarLaal
    ChootarLaal Member Posts: 25
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    Another thing. Exhaust smells bad.
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,693
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    bad smell is bad, your combustion is off (good combustion is almost odorless, certainly not offensive). That ties into the rough start noise i would presume.
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • ChootarLaal
    ChootarLaal Member Posts: 25
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    So how do I find a local (Boston) serviceman who knows Munchkins well? Or can have my plumber adjust gas valve?
  • Rich_49
    Rich_49 Member Posts: 2,766
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    have you not contacted the local to you company HTP (New Bedford) yet ? 508-763-8071 or Emerson Swan , Randolph . These are the manufacturer and the Rep agency , they will know how to put you in contact with the right person .
    You didn't get what you didn't pay for and it will never be what you thought it would .
    Langans Plumbing & Heating LLC
    732-751-1560
    Serving most of New Jersey, Eastern Pa .
    Consultation, Design & Installation anywhere
    Rich McGrath 732-581-3833
  • ChootarLaal
    ChootarLaal Member Posts: 25
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    800-346-9215 Emerson Swan. Got some contractors contacts. Thx.
  • ChootarLaal
    ChootarLaal Member Posts: 25
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    Don't call Williams, they are an authorized Munchkin seller and installer according to Emerson Swan but do NOT service them. Weirdos.
  • Pfaust
    Pfaust Member Posts: 1
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    Check the mesh burner screws, often loosen up due to heat. You will know by wiggling the burner cone. Check swirl plate at gas valve, the swirl plate tends to deteriorate, and then perform C02 analysis with combustion analyzer.
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,801
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    What type of vent system single or duel? Sounds like intake air possible contaminated with exhaust air....your symptoms are classic that....hum mm what did last techs report printed and given to you say with his shiney new combustion analyzer?
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,801
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    Ask him what he knows the figures should be and then ask him to give you a brief explanation of why...they should be....
  • orvisguy
    orvisguy Member Posts: 5
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    I had the similar noise. It was a deteriorating swirl plate. Just a thought.