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Boiler Controls

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Paul48
Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
in THE MAIN WALL
Without getting into the discussion of which mod/con is better.......I am alone in the thinking that the controls on all the mod/cons are just too stupid. We have ODR, but the boiler doesn't have the ability to process the information, and adapt to the information you provide for it,other than alter its firing rate?.It just seems that a few hundred dollars would get lost in a 5-digit installation. Just an observation.

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  • Eastman
    Eastman Member Posts: 927
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    huh?

    A few hundred dollars for what?
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
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    A

    more advanced control. One with the ability to learn.
  • Eastman
    Eastman Member Posts: 927
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    I don't think it would get lost.

    For example, I feel like indoor feedback should be a standard feature.
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
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    OK

    How about multiple indoor feeds, in specific locations, with the boiler adapting the curve to learned conditions.I didn't mean for anyone to get hung up on the money aspects, but I will say that a NEST thermostat has more learning capability than a mod/con boiler, and we know how much they cost.
  • heatpro02920
    heatpro02920 Member Posts: 991
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    I would like to see

    the boilers come with a generic all in one control, that bolts on like the honeywell aquastat on a conventional boiler... maybe a series of dip switches to make it work with which ever boiler... So if your control on a Buderus GB quits, it will take the same control as a WM Ultra or TT Solo, just configure it to work with dip switch settings set forth by the manufacture... That would take away half the BS about getting replacement parts for these mod cons.... So the boiler makers can just concentrate on making their boiler {Heat exchanger, chassis, ect}, leave the gas valve, control, and sensors to a company like honeywell or taco or whoever... Plus that will give us some choices in replacements like we have now with conventionals... Then they can have add on "smart" modules that can control zone and primary deltas {with variable speed pumps}, zoning in general, temps for each zone, priority, dhw, ect....



    Im sure it will come, just not by tomorrow, I start an install with 2 TT60's feeding 2 baseboard loops, 1 modine garage hanger, and 4 radiant zones...
  • Eastman
    Eastman Member Posts: 927
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    this already exists

    There are several control packages that do exactly what you describe.
  • Eastman
    Eastman Member Posts: 927
    edited April 2013
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    Definitely

    To me, the ideal would be:



    Room sensors collect room conditions, rates of change, and occupant desires.  Information should be reported back to central command via a non-proprietary communication protocol.



    Central command should come with the boiler.



    Optional zone valves, pumps, and mix systems downstream should connect to central command via (again) some kind of non-proprietary communication protocol.  (and that is typically the norm now)
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
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    confused

    by your definately response, and whether you are saying that all those things exist or just the ones regarding peripheral equipment?
  • Eastman
    Eastman Member Posts: 927
    edited April 2013
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    I think it should be standard with every unit...

    I mean, yeah that exists, but as far as I know there is not a boiler that comes with it.  You would have to purchase it separately and at considerable extra expense.



    Oh, you mean the zoned indoor feedback systems specifically?  Yes, from third parties once again.  I don't know of any boiler that can do it off the shelf.
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
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    Expense

    They would probably charge a bundle,for no good reason. Look at computer prices nowadays, and you wouldn't need anywhere near the capabilities of the cheapest computer available. Not to mention that all this stuff is being produed by the Asian market for  pennies. I just think the mod/con manufacturers could do a lot better. They are still a lot closer to the old "relay logic" controls than they should be at this stage of the game.
  • Eastman
    Eastman Member Posts: 927
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    Yeah

    They are really letting the electronics revolution pass them by.  However, I think the first step should be developing an open communication standard between thermostats and central controllers.  Otherwise we will be perpetually stuck with silly ultra expensive proprietary thermometers.
  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
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    Communication

    I'd be happy if we could first have control of our

    boiler pumps. Without it all the other points are mute.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,569
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    Agreed

    Chris,

    The day the boiler comes preplumbed with primary secondary ,can fully modulate the gas valve, blower, and the primary circulator, I will be a happy man.

    Any guesses who will get there first? Viessmann?

    As far as indoor feedback, learning,  and all, tekmar and others do good job of  this.It really is plug and play. Set up the 0-10 vdc and let it rip.

    Carl
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
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    It's All Ready Available

    Viessmann and others do it across the pond. Go to the Viessmann UK website and look at the Vitodens 200, pull the manual. All the little blanks in Coding 2 in our manual, well in theirs you can control a lot more. One being your boiler pump. You will never see it here until the entire market floats towards it. Your adding cost and the minority that want it don't out weigh the majority that wouldn't touch it.



    I'm interested to see how the new Vitodens 222F is going to do. That will be the sign if the majority is beginning to get it. Do you think their is a place for a Vitodens 200 with a built in 30 gal indirect below it. Sits on the floor, no piping for the indirect needed, no exp tank needed? No boiler pump needed?
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,576
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    Wish list

    Don't forget when making the wish list to the engineers designing the system, that the sensors should communicate wirelessly, or through the ac power line like the old radio shack plug and talk intercoms.

    I really like the idea of a standard control for all boilers, maybe controlled/setup from an iPhone/pc. NBC
  • R Mannino
    R Mannino Member Posts: 440
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    Sounds

    like a TT Excellence, sort of.
This discussion has been closed.

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