USA' s Greatest Engineer..........

Then you Are one!

IF the definition of an engineer can be so loosly interpreted, then by golly you already are an engineer. So what is your complaint?

Beyond the "layman's" definitions you provided from the dictionary, are legal and technical definitions, specifically defined by States to ensure unqualified AND untrained individuals are not allowed to legally pass themselves off as an engineer. These definitions, upon which the safety of the public relies, require as part of the qualifications, a 4 year degree from an accredited engineering college, plus a minimum amount of experience as a practicing engineer, and the acheivement of a passing grade on the "Professional Engineer - Principals and Practice of Engineering" exam. These are fairly consistent from state to state, but local variations apply.

By the current accepted legal definitions, neither you nor Henry are engineers. (BTW, engine building is not a legitimate branch of engineering, neither is "machinist".) Henry was obviously a very intellegent and innovative man, of that ther is no doubt. You have a high school education, 3 years of general math and some tech school training, have never worked as an engineer (by the real world definition, not yours) and have never qualified to take, much less pass the exam. Pretty much means your not an engineer, not even anywhere close.

I am an Engineer

If you count every single toy, bike, swing-set, puzzle, home & car repairs in my life. I just can't put PE on my business card. I don't understand this obsession? Will your family & friends love you more if PE is attached to your name? What's really going on? I'm concerned...

Rick

P.E.'s are Licensed Civil Engineers........

Tim,

Henry Ford by definition has more of a right to call himself an Engineer then you do. Can you build an engine with your own two hands?

I know I can.

I don't call myself a Licensed Civil, the word is Civil Profesional Engineer. Who left out the word civil in your title? I never claimed to be one.

The big problem lies in the misrepresentation of a Civil Engineer. They have dropped the word civil and now they think they are the only ones that can call themselves Engineers. They are just one branch of engineering. There are software engineers, mechanical and electrical engineers, hydronic engineers. Many people are engineers.

JR

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Discrimination..........

Tim,

This is descrimination. You are decriminating against me and Henry right now. Henry Ford has always been a great engineer. Because he was hands on you are descrimating against him. You are refusing to recognize his great acheivements. He did more great engineering work then you could ever do in your lifetime. This is just plain wrong. I have every right to complain about this.

JR

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As a matter of fact...

I can and have on several occasions built engines with my hands. I have also designed and installed hydronic heating systems and forced air systems.

However, you don't like to study English and your reading comprehension needs some help, so I will help.

I never claimed to be an an Engineer, though it is a fact. It is a fact that I earned by acheieving ALL that is required to do so, not just the subjects that I liked. The reason that the degree is required is because to acheive the degree you have to do what is required, not what is desired. Had you not chosen the easy route out of high school, you might be able to say that, too.

A Professional Engineer and a Structural Engineer are two different licensed disciplines. I have never made any mention of a Civil Engineer. Jay did, but I suppose you confuse all engineers and lump us together as one of "them". A Professional Engineer, licensed by the state can be electrical, mechanical or civil in background, but all have to pass the same test to get a PE License. A Structural Engineer, is a highly specific specialty within the Civil discipline.

Electrical, mechanical, civil, structural and aeronautical are the "classic" branches of engineering that you will find represented in ABET accredited engineering colleges, there maybe some more. Newer "branches include Computer Science and Software Engineering. Hydronic is a type of heating system, not a branch of engineering. Plumbing is a trade, not a branch of engineering.

In my professional opinion, Will Carrier is a far superior Engineer than the industrialist and businessman, Henry Ford or the great inventor Thomas Edison.

Fighting for freedom..........

Tim,

I didn't know that the P.E. is all three branches like that. Interesting.

Your aproach is different then mine. You go and first learn a broad background of many things. Then you take a test on what you have learned. The test is on what you have learned in the class's. Everyone learns the same things. So they can pass the test. What kind of technological advancement happens when nobody does things differently?

My aproach is different. I first had an interest in racing cars. I went out and learned every thing that pertained to that subject. I learned how the breaks worked, the combustion engine. I learned the science behind things too. I got to the point where I could design and modify the car very well.

I then went and learned about Entrepreneurship. I went to college for that. I took a few law and business class's but I also studied outside the curiculim. I read a few good books. I took some seminars and I signed up with SCORE where they assigned me a mentor who helped out. I finished the progam and received a certificate.

I then studied Hydronics. I have probabally studied hardest on hydronics. I am now studying Energy Efficiency in Heating Systems. I have a few projects I am working on.

My education is different. These differences are valuable because they are different. That is what makes technology progress. I can teach you things that you never heard of before. I can teach you methods that produce much better results then standard practices. I always am looking for the new technological edge. I'm sure that I could learn a lot from you too.

I would have a hard time passing the P.E. test. Then if I wanted to I could write a test that you could never pass.

I'm not interested in degrees or tests. I am interested in results. The true test of a great engineer is a well engineered product. I am interested in delivering well designed systems or products. I am reluctent to say engineered when refering to my own work because I might get in trouble with the law here.

See I am scared to call my work engineering work. Is this country really free? Am I really free? Sometimes I don't feel so. I am fighting to become free.

JR



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Me too

I've been discriminated against too, just because I don't have a plumbers or HVAC license the supply house down the road won't sell me a gas boiler, and the state will not allow me to install it for people! How dare they assume that I don't know what I am doing, they don't know me or what I have done, or can do! As I said above, I have a BSME and I am qualified to work for HTP designing boilers and other equipment, who are they, or the state, to say I can't install gas appliances! This is truly an outrage! I have seen some plumbers make mistakes, so clearly I am more qualified than they are, and I must know all I need to know, can't everybody see that!
Jay

This is

the differences that exist from area to area or school to school. Where I went to college, Structural was lumped in with Civil. Not a significant difference.

That

will earn you notable mention to the therapist at the next session!

okay

Am I the only guy who read this thread, and has come to the conclusion that John has to lay off that Kenya brand coffee....he can't handle the caffeine!!!!

John, you want to be a P.E., great go to school like all the other P.E.'s had to. I agree with you on some points, but having the title of P.E. won't mean as much if they just hand it out to every hard working owner/operator like you and me.

Here is what I think. You are a hard worker. You design heating systems that work, and are energy efficient. You install jobs neatly, and they are operationally flawless. You are passionate about your chosen profession and you are constantly learning, and keeping up with technological advances in your industry. You actually understand the science behind the products you install.

Congratulations, you are a good contractor. When a homeowner hires a company to advise them, and install a heating system you are the person they have always hoped would take care of them, and you put their mind at ease.

That's It

OK, your not a licensed engineer... whaaaa. Some of your posts make me think of an attention starved kid who creates problems so people have to notice.

Get over it, or go to school.

Thanks for the entertainment!


Cosmo

John does have some valid points. I have known a handful of mech. engineers over the years. Not to paint all engineers the same- these guys could barely tell the difference between a slide rule and a dipstick. Yes, I used a slide rule in electronics class in high school in the early seventies. I can design, build and program most any kind of computerized device from scratch - using chips, micro controllers and transistors designed by engineers I don't need to make my own pipe and sheet metal to be a creative problem solver. I grew up in a house where you were considered by my father to be evil if you were too smart (or left-handed).

THAT is an oppressive feeling. The fact is, we are all in a box for better or worse. Contrary to the saying, you must learn to work inside the box. I've never had the money to pay for UL and FCC testing for my inventions- let alone patent fees. That is why we made sure our kids knew from an early age that they were going to college. You can't argue with success John. Those degrees my kids earned have paid for themselves and opened doors for them that I never could have. Getting back to my original point...there are good and bad in all professions. Yours is a profession John, be good and be proud of THAT.

Good luck

Weezbo: (slightly off topic)

I really hope your writings are being collected for inclusion into "The Book of Weezbo". You range far and wide and are never hurtful. It would make a good read ;~)

Yours, Larry

Wait a minute

I'M left handed!
But I'm not so smart... (Just as smart as I can be:-)
Kevin

Ditto Kevin


As one lefty to another, the learning should never stop. I just try to do fewer stupid things so the scale tips in the other direction If you don't have a degree or title you are not automatically stupid. Unless you live in Oz, the reverse is also true. Both of our kids were noticed while doing part-time work in college. They are doing what they love...and paid nicely too. Had they not been there on that day doing that job, their lives would be different today. It’s the same when we are working for a customer. If they like our work- they tell a friend and we get to do more of what we like to do. John, if you love what you are doing and make decent money, isn’t that enough?

Astronomical studies anyone?

The point of closest approach is called the periapsis or pericentre and the point of farthest excursion is the apoapsis (Greek ἀπο, from), apocentre or apapsis (the latter term, although etymologically more correct, is much less used).

I'd never heard of periapsis before ;~) Thanks Weez!