How to upsell higher end equipment

tony the tech · October 2005

I hate to ask an elementary question.. but what is different about this boiler that allows you to return water at any temperature and not condensate?

Unknown · October 2005

We just got out first look at

the Burnham MPO boiler today . It looks like a real fine piece of engineering , and it can handle any return temp without mxing . We'll be installing out first one next week .

What was brought up during the class was how to upsell this type of boiler . I don't do the selling , but we are in customer's homes doing non boiler work alot and the people often ask what's a good choice , and why . Before I start giving out answers , I want to get it straight in my mind what makes the MPO rated at 87% AFUE a better choice than a V83 rated at 86% . Although the MPO can handle low temp return water , most of our homes have high temp emitters .

Any sage advice I can give our customer base ? Thanks .

kevin coppinger_4 · October 2005

much easier ....

to clean. Better insulated so stand by losses are less...kpc

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Unknown · October 2005

Playing Devil's Advocate

but on Monday I just cleaned my Peerless WBV3 under the stairs . With the swingout door I was able to do it within an hour , and that was a real good cleaning , bringing in the tools and vac , taking the fluepipe and canopy apart and reinstalling .

The rep did say the MPO has 2 1/2 inches of insulation , I think that factor doesn't mean much with AFUE ? Thanks alot Kevin for the good points .

Joe Brix · October 2005

Sure we mostly have high temp emitters

But do we need high temp for the whole heating system?
AFUE is measured at fixed temps (180° I think). So if I can run most of the season at a lower temp and not bother with mixing, my real world efficeny is actually much higher. On smaller homes that burn under 700 gals a year, it might be tough to justify the added expense when the payback will take so long.

Unknown · October 2005

Most of the homes

we work in don't have the space for an MPO and an indirect , but these homes don't burn much oil anyway . The MPO is geared toward the higher end of our clientele . Outdoor reset would be a good option for these jobs . Thanks for the idea Joe .

pitman9 · October 2005

You have to tell the customer

What's in it for them. It has to be a benefit, not a feature.

Better AFUE is a feature. More money in your pocket to go to the movies is a benefit.

10 year warranty is a feature. No money out of your pocket for repairs for 10 years is a benefit.

> What was

> brought up during the class was how to upsell

> this type of boiler . I don't do the selling ,

> but we are in customer's homes doing non boiler

> work alot and the people often ask what's a good

> choice , and why . Before I start giving out

> answers , I want to get it straight in my mind

> what makes the MPO rated at 87% AFUE a better

> choice than a V83 rated at 86% . Although the MPO

Constantin · October 2005

Some ideas...

... I'd upsell using some of the following logic:

The AFUE doesn't capture everything. It is a steady-state number that cannot account for different return water temperatures, standby losses, and other issues. It is taken under ideal, test lab conditions. Few of these conditions exist in the field.
Being able to clean an HX very easily is to the benefit of the customer since it makes the technicians job much easier. If a tech is given 2 hours to do a cleaning (yeah, I know, not necessarily realistic), and it only takes 15 minutes to open and throroughly vaccuum the thing because the doors and access ports make it so easy, then that leaves more time for the technician to check on other things.
More importantly, an easy-to-clean HX will more likely be cleaned well. A clean HX translates into lower fuel usage under real-life conditions, not the DoE testing lab.
IIRC, the MPO can accept return water temperatures as low as 100°F. That's a much lower end of the range than most boilers. This will allow you to retrofit and take better advantage of outdoor reset, leading to longer circulation, more even temperatures inside the house, and less noise (pipes no longer do the rhumba as 180°F hot water hits them).

Are the economic benefits hard to quantify? Absolutely. Thus, I would concentrate on up-selling comfort, not the economic benefit that we know is there but cannot quantify until the DoE adopts seasonal efficiency instead of AFUE steady-state for its testing and minimum efficiency standards.

Big Ed · October 2005

Proper Size

A smaller size boiler which is closer to the actual heat load of the average home is more efficant then a large over sized boiler needed to heat a coil. The small V is what? 100k ,WB3? A average home at -10 coldest day needs what ?60K..

Uni R · October 2005

Mixing is built in...

Essentially it is like the Revolution and has built in mixing to handle the lower return temps.

Guy_6 · October 2005

sell

I am selling our higher end equipment with one sentence:
"With oil at $2.60 per gallon, doesn't it make sense now more than ever?"

BTW I was impressed with the MPO myself. It reminded me of a small (more efficient) 2 door American Standard, which was impressive itself.

Jaitch · October 2005

Instfallation Just Got Easier, too!

Although not a customer selling point, the MPO installs with ease. (I was impressed by my first one) No more using the aquastat case as a junction box.The rear cover of the boiler pops off and uses speed connectors for the various controls you will be using. Burnham's asking for 0.00 in WC at the specially designed test port on the back of the boiler, and when we set it there, I was impressed. Easy to set, easy to wire, included pipe fitting allows you to hook up an aquastat, LWCO, and auxiliary limit control without "hunting" for unused tappings on the boiler.

And (best of all) NO "thankless coil" option. Gowan sell that indirect!

JAITCH

Unknown · October 2005

Actually

I haven't installed one yet , but it seems that cleaning the MPO will not be any faster than a traditional pin type with swingout door . You need access to the back and front , and you still need to dismantle the fluepipe to clean any accumulation and the chimney base .

I know our customer base , and I think the main question will be if it'll save them any appreciable amount of money over the long haul . Comfort can be delivered just as easily with add on equipment , so I won't be using that reasoning . The low return temp capability is a good upsell reason . Thanks alot Constantin for the ideas .

Unknown · October 2005

This won't be going in homes

that would use a coil . And it won't be going in a home with less than 100k heatloss . What the question would be is why should they buy an MPO with an indirect , over a V8 and indirect ?

Unknown · October 2005

Did it go in a basement ?

Any problems maneuvering it in place ? I just got a look at the MPO this morning in our shop . It looks vewwy hevvvy !

heatboy · October 2005

It's much easier.............

to sell down than up, Ron. Albiet, more work.

Guy_6 · October 2005

Gravity

Gravity- it's a beautiful thing. Most of the time...ouch.

How to upsell higher end equipment

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