Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

How to upsell higher end equipment

I hate to ask an elementary question.. but what is different about this boiler that allows you to return water at any temperature and not condensate?

Comments

  • We just got out first look at

    the Burnham MPO boiler today . It looks like a real fine piece of engineering , and it can handle any return temp without mxing . We'll be installing out first one next week .

    What was brought up during the class was how to upsell this type of boiler . I don't do the selling , but we are in customer's homes doing non boiler work alot and the people often ask what's a good choice , and why . Before I start giving out answers , I want to get it straight in my mind what makes the MPO rated at 87% AFUE a better choice than a V83 rated at 86% . Although the MPO can handle low temp return water , most of our homes have high temp emitters .

    Any sage advice I can give our customer base ? Thanks .
  • kevin coppinger_4
    kevin coppinger_4 Member Posts: 2,124
    much easier ....

    to clean. Better insulated so stand by losses are less...kpc

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Playing Devil's Advocate

    but on Monday I just cleaned my Peerless WBV3 under the stairs . With the swingout door I was able to do it within an hour , and that was a real good cleaning , bringing in the tools and vac , taking the fluepipe and canopy apart and reinstalling .

    The rep did say the MPO has 2 1/2 inches of insulation , I think that factor doesn't mean much with AFUE ? Thanks alot Kevin for the good points .
  • Joe Brix
    Joe Brix Member Posts: 626
    Sure we mostly have high temp emitters

    But do we need high temp for the whole heating system?
    AFUE is measured at fixed temps (180° I think). So if I can run most of the season at a lower temp and not bother with mixing, my real world efficeny is actually much higher. On smaller homes that burn under 700 gals a year, it might be tough to justify the added expense when the payback will take so long.
  • Most of the homes

    we work in don't have the space for an MPO and an indirect , but these homes don't burn much oil anyway . The MPO is geared toward the higher end of our clientele . Outdoor reset would be a good option for these jobs . Thanks for the idea Joe .
  • pitman9
    pitman9 Member Posts: 74
    You have to tell the customer

    What's in it for them. It has to be a benefit, not a feature.

    Better AFUE is a feature. More money in your pocket to go to the movies is a benefit.

    10 year warranty is a feature. No money out of your pocket for repairs for 10 years is a benefit.

    > What was

    > brought up during the class was how to upsell

    > this type of boiler . I don't do the selling ,

    > but we are in customer's homes doing non boiler

    > work alot and the people often ask what's a good

    > choice , and why . Before I start giving out

    > answers , I want to get it straight in my mind

    > what makes the MPO rated at 87% AFUE a better

    > choice than a V83 rated at 86% . Although the MPO
  • Constantin
    Constantin Member Posts: 3,796
    Some ideas...

    ... I'd upsell using some of the following logic:
    • The AFUE doesn't capture everything. It is a steady-state number that cannot account for different return water temperatures, standby losses, and other issues. It is taken under ideal, test lab conditions. Few of these conditions exist in the field.
    • Being able to clean an HX very easily is to the benefit of the customer since it makes the technicians job much easier. If a tech is given 2 hours to do a cleaning (yeah, I know, not necessarily realistic), and it only takes 15 minutes to open and throroughly vaccuum the thing because the doors and access ports make it so easy, then that leaves more time for the technician to check on other things.
    • More importantly, an easy-to-clean HX will more likely be cleaned well. A clean HX translates into lower fuel usage under real-life conditions, not the DoE testing lab.
    • IIRC, the MPO can accept return water temperatures as low as 100°F. That's a much lower end of the range than most boilers. This will allow you to retrofit and take better advantage of outdoor reset, leading to longer circulation, more even temperatures inside the house, and less noise (pipes no longer do the rhumba as 180°F hot water hits them).
    Are the economic benefits hard to quantify? Absolutely. Thus, I would concentrate on up-selling comfort, not the economic benefit that we know is there but cannot quantify until the DoE adopts seasonal efficiency instead of AFUE steady-state for its testing and minimum efficiency standards.
  • Big Ed
    Big Ed Member Posts: 1,117
    Proper Size

    A smaller size boiler which is closer to the actual heat load of the average home is more efficant then a large over sized boiler needed to heat a coil. The small V is what? 100k ,WB3? A average home at -10 coldest day needs what ?60K..
  • Uni R
    Uni R Member Posts: 663
    Mixing is built in...

    Essentially it is like the Revolution and has built in mixing to handle the lower return temps.
  • Guy_6
    Guy_6 Member Posts: 450
    sell

    I am selling our higher end equipment with one sentence:
    "With oil at $2.60 per gallon, doesn't it make sense now more than ever?"

    BTW I was impressed with the MPO myself. It reminded me of a small (more efficient) 2 door American Standard, which was impressive itself.
  • Jaitch
    Jaitch Member Posts: 68
    Instfallation Just Got Easier, too!

    Although not a customer selling point, the MPO installs with ease. (I was impressed by my first one) No more using the aquastat case as a junction box.The rear cover of the boiler pops off and uses speed connectors for the various controls you will be using. Burnham's asking for 0.00 in WC at the specially designed test port on the back of the boiler, and when we set it there, I was impressed. Easy to set, easy to wire, included pipe fitting allows you to hook up an aquastat, LWCO, and auxiliary limit control without "hunting" for unused tappings on the boiler.

    And (best of all) NO "thankless coil" option. Gowan sell that indirect!

    JAITCH
  • Actually

    I haven't installed one yet , but it seems that cleaning the MPO will not be any faster than a traditional pin type with swingout door . You need access to the back and front , and you still need to dismantle the fluepipe to clean any accumulation and the chimney base .

    I know our customer base , and I think the main question will be if it'll save them any appreciable amount of money over the long haul . Comfort can be delivered just as easily with add on equipment , so I won't be using that reasoning . The low return temp capability is a good upsell reason . Thanks alot Constantin for the ideas .
  • This won't be going in homes

    that would use a coil . And it won't be going in a home with less than 100k heatloss . What the question would be is why should they buy an MPO with an indirect , over a V8 and indirect ?
  • Did it go in a basement ?

    Any problems maneuvering it in place ? I just got a look at the MPO this morning in our shop . It looks vewwy hevvvy !
  • heatboy
    heatboy Member Posts: 1,468
    It's much easier.............

    to sell down than up, Ron. Albiet, more work.
    heatboy



    The Radiant Whisperer





    "The laws of physics will outweigh the laws of ecomomics every time."
  • Guy_6
    Guy_6 Member Posts: 450
    Gravity

    Gravity- it's a beautiful thing. Most of the time...ouch.
This discussion has been closed.