Social engineering or Common Sense

hr

Maybe mother nature

and the big guy above are telling us it's time to take our planet more seriously. Global warming, changing weather patterns, severe storms, disappering ice caps, thumbing our nose at the Kyoto Protocol???

hot rod

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hvac64

BINGO!!!!!

Mike Thomas_2

It's just money

It doesn't matter what it costs. Some people think the money is wasted or gone on projects like rebuilding New Orleans. Fact is, the money spent on materials and much of the labor to rebuild, will be going into the pockets of guys like us. The money doesn't disappear, it just goes back through the economy again and again. JUst do what it takes put it back together again. You never know, it could be you next, a snow storm, a tornado, a fire, who knows. There is no garden of eden out there anymore.

John S.

I respectfully disagree hot rod...

I think by nature of government, there can be no wake up call. If anything it's a wake-up call for us as individuals.



First, I think there are two seperate topics being discussed here.

I have no doubt that everyone on the WALL and 99.9% of all Americans is sincerely grieving over the loss from Katrina. And, I also agree and am angered that the feds response time during this catastrophe was ridiculously slow.

My daughters raised $90 in 4 hours at a Lemonade stand this Saturday. Our neighbor's company will match every dollar that goes to Red Cross dollar for dollar. Needless to say, I am proud of them. Emily's (my eldest at 8) voice was hoarse by late afternoon.

However...
It has never been more apparent that we cannot and should not rely on our Federal or State governments for survival. We never could for that matter. That's not it's purpose. Each one of us has a responsibily to ourselves to provide a good, safe living for our families. For instance, If someone were to develop condominiums under a volcano, they would not have me as a customer. I would consider it too 'risky' to live there. I think we as Americans have been taking a whole lot for granted for a loooong time.

I used to think the guys you'd read about that would build shelters and store years worth of canned goods, and firearms were crazy. Now, I'm not quite so sure.

...on another note...

why does it seem that the U.S. Government no longer makes DRASTIC changes to go with the times? do not drastic times call for drastic measures? gas rationing? etc.?

In defense of those currently in power... I believe we are in the midst of unprecedented, unsolicited changes to our great nation. I think we are entering unchartered territory with regards to the new 'World Economy'. It will be an interesting ride. Faith and Hope is the American Way and that will never die!

Steve Ebels_3

Rephrase the question

I'm not advocating abandoning the entire coastline. I'm not saying that the affected states are not worth living in or any similar thought. The point of the discussion was not global warming, the war in Iraq or the government response to this situation.

The question was should New Orleans and hundreds of other similarly destroyed cities and communities be "resurrected" to the "specs" they were originally built to. "Specs" being location, type of structures, infrastructures, industries, etc.

I guess I look at this as a sterling opportunity to think outside the box. We as a nation and the people along the coast there have a clean slate to work with. Literaly!!

Shouldn't new construction be built to withstand Cat 5 winds. The likelyhood of seeing them again is very real so why build them to a standard that is any less. Shouldn't the new structures be concrete and steel instead of stickbuilt?

Shouldn't weather protected harbors and port facilities that do not compromise barrier islands be developed? Shouldn't the barrier island ecosystem be enhanced as much as possible?

I could go on and on but maybe this is enough to focus the direction of my comments a little more precisely.

Tony_23

\"Built for the job\"

That's the way I do things.

Buildings in earthquake zones, tornado alley, snow belts, etc. are built to withstand the possibilities. Or at least they're supposed to be.

That, to me, is common sense.

hr

Should a city

or a home be built in areas subject to these conditions?

The homes in California that slid of the hillside during a extended season of rain, recently, were built and anchored to very strict seismic codes. Some of the footage I saw showed the whole structure, intact, sliding off the hill. The framing construction and moment frames held, the earth below just disappered A carriage bolt through the center of the earth with a big washer and nut in China would not have helped if the ground vanishes

Doesn't matter how strongly the home is built if the land below washes away.

Same for all the earthquake damage in Northern California a few years back. A lot of that was built to be earthquake proof. Roads and bridges buckled like paper!

If rebuilt to Cat 5, is a Cat 6 or 7 possible? And at what cost do we go to assure absolute protection? Hard to know the forces possible behind an act of God.

I'm sure a of folks in the engineering community are strugglig with these questions right now.

hot rod

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bb

Flood insurance

Steve:

I have heard that the federal flood insurance is totally funded by premiums, and premiums only. No tax dollars go to fund this program. If this is true, and the case, then all homeowners in flood areas pay the price for the risk associated.

That been said, I if you don't look to the past, history will repeat itself. It's only a matter of time, and a waste of resources.

bb

stevel

N.O.

With all the mud slinging going on, read this article
to get a clear perspective of what went on before, and
after this tragedy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4216508.stm

Ron Schroeder_3

taking the planet seriously?

Respectfully, Nature is no mother and there is no "big guy" upstairs. As to global warming, the experts are not in agreement. Weather patterns are only discernable when you watch it long enough. Experts agree that for meaningful information to be extrapolated we have to look on the scale of thousands not hundreds of years.

They Kyoto Protocol is smugly proffered by have nations that have nothing to lose. It is borne on the backs of have not nations with nothing to gain. The most practical outcome of banning C12 refrigerants is not a repair of the ozone layer but the dissappearance of practical affordable refrigeration for the poorest of the poor.

Signed, an embarassed Canadian.

Shalom.

Tony_23

Thank you

My post to that effect was yanked. I'm glad someone else has the sense to realize that we're not "paying for past transgressions", and will say so here.

My sin ? Using the initials for b@##%&*t.

JackEnnisMartin

Katrina / disaster/ help

I really suppose ;because I am not an Amercian ,{ my wife grew up in South Dakota] I really cannot speak as a citzen of your country. However, as someone who has been sending money to our disaster organizastion here in Winnipeg I think I can have a little word. I looked at all the posts and unless I missed one - not one was from the disaster area? Now, that could mean one of two things -- they are too busy to write { could be } or getting water, food , and something over the heads of your wife and kids takes precedence. I want to ask all you lovely people a question ;just one. If { God forfend } your child or wife was a cancer victim and some drug was avialable to cure the person would you care how much it cost? I would suggest no ,you would beg, borrow or somehow obtain the money in any way legally. Now, put yourself in the position of a parent in this disaster; you know ,if this kid does not get some clean water and medical attention you are going to loose him or her -- would you like someone asking if we should spend the money to rebuild my home because it costs too much? Gentlemen, why do we not do something constructive and get out our cheque books ,and give what we can afford ,and maybe sleep a little better thinking some child is gettng what they need to survive! Words cost nothing and cause so much pain and grief; so, in the future think before you speak and if you have to write something for heavens sake write a chegue --at the very least it may help.

My heart felt wishes of better times to come go out to the people in the disaster area -- JUST BE GLAD IT IS NOT YOU.

Jack Ennis Martin

JohnWood1

NO WHERE ELSE

Steve;

The difference between the Dutch and New Orleans is that the Dutch have no where else to go! They have to make do ith what little land they have and are even reclaiming land from the sea to expand.

On the other hand.......... USA is a land of boundless area! New Orleans could easily be relocated... sans the french quarter, which is high enough that it may be worth protecting with a dike.

If I was an owner of an old home that had been underwater for several weeks, I would take the money and run not walk to higher ground.

I can well imagine that a great number of those displaced will never return.

Ron Schroeder_3

with all due respect

I read no racor or superiority here. In fact read a lot about compassion, heartfelt sorrow, prayer to and for and so one. I know Wallies to be generous to a fault.

On another thread I read answers to a question about refurbishing a forty year old boiler.

The common thread is this, while we pine for the old days and the old ways, they may in fact not be appropriate for the present times.

I want to see the people of Louisiana and Mississippi housed clothed fed and watered, a sentiment shared by almost every poster. I along with others just don't want to see them planted back into the aquarium from whence they have just been plucked. I find the notion particularly galling that the rst of the citizenry should have to fund the rebuilding of that aquarium.