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GB install ( s. milne )
Glenn Harrison_2
Member Posts: 845
If they finally figured out how to make the reprogramming stick, I congratulate them. I also hope the Outdoor reset is coming in March as stated by others here, so the full benefits or the GB142 can be released.
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Comments
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I should say JCA
This is another great install by Chris.
This is a little cottage on the owners property. I have been pushing for the GB install for a while, but after checking the chamber of the old beast and seeing falling in I PUSHED FOR THE INSTALL.
We had a carpenter come in and build the wall since Chris says he and wood don't get along. Apparently he gets along quite nicly with pipe
This is a one zone cottage with Cast Iron radiators so we used the RC10 to replace the thermostat. So far so good. I agree there are very few situations where the RC control works with an American system.
Scott
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Nice!
Chris does beautiful work.
EM-10 control is coming soon so I am told. That should open up more options with the GB.
Very nice work guys!
Mark H
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Yes he does !
All we need is the finishing touchs. Nice big sticker and the hot file for the paperwork. OH and the over flow tube for the relief.
Can't wait for the new control.
Scott
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And.....
The CO detectors. New rules and all! JCA0 -
Scott turned into
another " pushy " salesman ? Say it aint so ...
Really nice install Chris . Can you tell us what the RC10 control does ? Thats a new one for me .
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Another Beauty!!
Lookin good! Very clean and neat as always Chris. I guess maybe one of these days we will pony up for the propress. I just know I would be stuck in the middle of no where missing just the right propress fitting. It will be very interesting to find out what the fuel savings will be there. Huge is what I am thinking. That was a PERFECT spot to use the RC10. Another sweet install by Milne P&H.
Darin
P.S. Once I moved off the amish farm, I found out electricity really wasn't the "devils magic".0 -
Nice! I love the way you guys made the primary header high and accesible! do you guys have good luck using a running trap on the exhaust instead of elbows? I was told that a running trap did not make a deep enough seal.0 -
nice indeed
Nice work, I like the painted plywood.Also the innovative way you moved the pump station. Hope you don't mind if I borrow that.
Question, where did you stick the lwco.
And you may still get some exhaust gases coming up thru the increaser fitting,
since you teed in above the trap. Don't get Mr.Hunt started ; )
Nice again.
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Chris very professional looking install
Man this stuff give's me goose bumps...How long from start to finish?.....David0 -
Nice work Chris. I too like the placement of the boiler loop.
Your making me want a propress even more.
Perfect use of the RC10.
How was the factory premade manifold? The two that I got looked pretty bad. We will clean them up before the install is complete.
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Nice
Nice, Chris....headed to Vegas for HCT??
Paul
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Nice install
Nice, neat install. Nice piping to the the factory manifold. The PVC drain from the exhaust pipe should have a trap to prevent flue gas from venting into the home.0 -
Common trap Joe...
Look down at the bottom, there is a trap. It serves both the vent and the combustion chamber. Yes, it double traps the combustion chamber, but I don't think it would be an issue.
Nice job Chris. Go ahead and take of the rest of the year. Scotts got 'er covered:-)
ME0 -
trap
There is a trap ME but in the wrong place. There is a good pic from Darin and Mark (More GB magic)
Trap is up by the 3"x3/4" tee.
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Good eyes Singh.
It is trapped and its location does double trap the combustion champer so an individuall trap upstream would be a better design. Those premade traps are not very deep and field made would be better.
Thanks, The Wall always makes me better and keeps the bar high.
I am not sure if running trap is correct term. A running trap has its inlet on the horrizontal, the trap Chris used is a P-trap.
Its a blast to be able to show others our work. Its fun to show off to guys who love this stuff as much as I Do. The contructive criticism is always welcome and helpful.
Scott
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not a problem
Just speaking from experience, I went
back on my first GB and added a trap in the right location.
This is what the wall is all about learning and helping each other,
regardless of how much experience we have.
Let us know how that RC10 performs.
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My point was...
that even though Chris didn't install it per the book, he DID install a trap and avoided exposing his customers to deadly gasses. That's all. Chris can answer for himself, but I suspect he was looking for a better way to do things...
I know Chris as the kind of guy that takes the time to read the instructions BEFORE he tackles the job, not after.
Often times, the manufacturer does things a certain way, without taking into consideration the field needs, and they make things more difficult for the installer. The required location for the trap up on top makes it difficult to run the combustion air and the exhaust piping to the left or right of the boiler without having to install a large offset in the exhaust or combustion air to accomodate the branch tee serving the drip connection to the vent. In the case of a the vents rising vertically off the boiler, it requires even MORE fittings to accomodate this tees needs. I suspect that the engineers from Holland have a gut feeling about the effects of PVC on their heat exchanger assembly, or maybe they know that the typical installer won't take the time to remove the cuttings from the inside of the pipes, and are worried about the shavings getting back into the heat exchanger and mucking up the works. Or maybe they actually ran this scenario by their metallurgists and the metals people suggested the drip connection. Who knows. However, it is interesting and rather curious that the other modcon manufacturers don't require this same configuration. Even those with aluminum blocks.
Do they know something the rest of the industry doesn't know? Why aren't they sharing this information? Or are they just being overly cautious at the expense of the installing contractor. I suspect the latter.
When they first brought their product to the US for beta testing, they required the use of CPVC for their vents, until they found out that all the other modcon manufacturers were using non foam core PVC. Also, the beta unit we installed, that was inspected by the factory men, didn't have the drip connection...
Color me suspicious...
ME0 -
EM-10 control
I attended the GB142 Tech. training back in Nov. And was told in 1-month! Are they still giving the same Reply.
It Has not stop us from selling/installing it.
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Misprint in GB142 Manual
I was just looking at buderus.net, and noticed there are 2 install manuals, 1 shows the trap after the the drain cup for the boiler drain, and one shows the trap before the drain cup for the boiler drain. The first one is obviously wrong as exhaust fumes can easily go down the drain and come out the drain cup. The second one makes more sense. Now that I think about it, one of the GB142's I put in had this same wrong picture in the book, but I blew it off and put the trap where common sense says it should be.
Here's the wrong way( and unfortunatly the way Chris has it)0 -
Here's the way it is supposed to be
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But
I agree fields conditions are prevalent, what ever is easier to do go ahead.
But the trap that Chris installed DOES NOT prevent gases from escaping .
Unless I'm missing something.
The tee is above the trap,the warm gases will reach the bull of the tee and the go up thru the indirect drain increaser cup and out. I know only a small amount may escape since most will get exhausted out thru vent.
If I'm wrong about this someone tell me.
I respect your know how ME, I'm just a mere plumber, a youngin' at that.
Good questions about the extra drip tee, i wondered about that also,maybe it has to do with the aluminum?
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Thanks for the drawing Glenn.
I hope that makes it clearer.
Like I said before , I only noticed Chris' install, because I too but the trap
in the wrong place. But I did correct it...
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That is an awsome install.
I love how you relocated the P/S manifold. Reminds me of how I need to look outside the box!!!.
I just hope the radiators are oversixed enough to compensate for the 167º lockout in the RC-10 control.
Chris, you are one my inspiration for my current and future installs.
I'd say keep up the good work, but I already know you will, you wouldn't have it any other way 0 -
As wilI I,
I trusted the photo, and completely forgot that the cup for the boiler trap IS in fact open to the atmosphere.
This puppy is condensing so much that the exhaust won't have a chance to get down there! I went in on one of our 20° mornings last week, and the boiler out temp. was 127°. The return temp was a staggering 107°, by the guague installed on the piping.
The person occupying the cottage has turned the RC-10 down from the previous setting of the T-87 at 69° to 65° and is just as comfortable. Qiute an amazing peice of equipment. Chris0 -
Presumption...
Singh, based on what I can see, provided that the connection to the combustion chamber is a solid one, and not an indirect one like the drawings Glen produced, the trap is between the pump and the CO generator, therefore EVERYTHING up stream of the trap is protected. If there IS an air gap, as is shown in the factory drawings, then I stand corrected and you are correct.
The combustion condensate drain has its own internal trap up inside of the appliance.
Makes you wonder how many were installed wrong eh...
Let's not judge Chris until we have ALL of the evidence:-) I assure you, if he's incorrect, come Monday morning it WILL be corrected.
ME0 -
Mark,
if you look in the last picture, you can see the drip cup under the boiler (the gray PVC fitting). Of course if you haven't seen the drip cup that comes with the GB142, you wouldn't know. Just wanted to point it out to you.0 -
Thanks Glenn...
and you are correct, I don't install any more. They've tied me with chains to a desk and computer and made me sell all of my tools:-(.
Therefore, I stand corrected. As installed, it will spill products of combustion. But, as I stated, Chris will get it taken care of in short order. Wouldn't suprise me if he's at the job site right now.
Still, makes one wonder how many got improperly installed due to the drawing error. Let's see how Buderus U.S. handles it. That's the true test of a manufacturer. I have confidence in them...
ME0 -
Now thats how a debate is to be!
Thank you guys i realy enjoyed and learned from your post and your helpful advise to all...David0 -
new manuals
I think all new GB manuals have a trap up by the 3" tee.
They got rid of that drum trap thig-a-mu-jig .
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Some insight on GB
Thank you for keeping this positive and constructive.
The use of a trap on the exhaust was because in Europe stainless steel exhaust pipe is used. Apparently the stainless steel pipe has a neturalizing effect on the condesate. PVC pipe does not effect the condensate, thus the recommendation of running less condensate through the aluminum block till further testing is done. From my understanding testing is underway regarding the long term affect of condesate on the aluminum block.
If all the GB installs where to what has been posted here, I might be out of a job!0 -
Joe
Should this install have a acid neutralizer ?
This came up while talking about the job. Chris and I discuss every job to the point that the other guys think we are a little wierd.
Not weird, we just care.
Scott
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Condensate
I have heard different opinions on this. If I where draining the condensate into a septic system, it would be treated. I would recommended to NEVER drain the condensate under a slab or sump pump pit. There is no information regarding this, just my opinion. Yes - I have been asked this question quite a few times.0 -
Thanks for the reply Joe.
I checked the PH on the initial "first pump" and it was about 7-ish, by the test strips from a Cryotek package.
I will add the trap at the fluepipe outlet tee when I go back to do the CO detectors.
Thanks for your input. I hope to continue to do the company proud....and don't worry abot your job. I think there will always be a job for you to do giving needed advice and guidance. Chris0 -
Glenn
The problem with the 167' max with the RC 10 has been fixed. Simple reprogramming in the control. Everything leaving Buderus now will ramp up to 180'(or higher I don't remember the max.)
Darin0 -
OK Singh,
I went back and did what I had to. Do you think this will meet Hunt's standard?
Mark E. Thanks for sticking up for me....but everyone was right. Bonehead mistakes were made, but corrected. Thanks again one and all. Chris0 -
sweet
Looks good. I hope you did'nt take it the wrong way, just wanted to point
that little oversight out.
Overall a VERY NICE install.
Peace
Devan
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as always Scott i love your work keep them coming ;-) nice job man
thanks
Jason0 -
don't leave home without it
Glad I'm not the only one who uses pro-press even on the blow offs now. Don't tell em how long it took you to pipe it up, Chris, they'll call you a liar, or put out a hit. Let me guess, no leaks. Are you using the pro-press ball valves now? I can clip one on a 2" line drooling water off a ratty old gate valve and own the boiler room in 15 minutes without shutting down the building for three hours. Yes I charge extra; they're thrilled. Right on.0 -
Chris
Not sure how to take that comment about "Hunt's standard".
To date I have never seen the "Hunt standard" in any professional publication.
Your installs are second to none sir!
You are a "bar setter" and you raise the bar higher.
Could we drop the "Hunt's standard" please?
I'm no different than you Chris. You know that. Darin is no different either. You know that too.
Mark H
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No problem Chris...
We ALL learned from your faux paux, and no one got hurt in the process. It takes a real man to own up to his mistakes. So long as he learns from them, the lesson is a good one.
In my humble opinion, you are a real good man.
Live and learn.
ME0
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