Enough Already

Cunner_2

My Conclusion

After really watching this site for a while now and thinking about it, I guess this is like anything else in life, I compare it to the motorcycle world:

The BMW bikers guys are a smaller group but consider their equipment to be superior to all, they are expensive, very well engineered but do cost a ton to fix.

The Japanese guys feel that their bikes are just as well engineered, don't break as often and are much easier and less expensive to fix.

Then there are the Harley Guys, they had a great product early on and experienced product problems, design issues and almost extinction, It didn't kill them and it made them stronger. A Harley guy will thumb his nose at any foreign bike. ( Deep down he does admire them but could never admit it)

Then there's the majority, guy's with no allegiance to anyone, they know all the players and try to keep up on the models and features, when they buy it's what they can afford and usually has something to do with past experience with a brand, for good or bad.


I guess it's all the same, when guy's are passionate, they want to spread they're passion for a whatever it is to whoever will listen, sometimes passion comes across as arrogance. Those with the most passion always tend to overshadow everyone else. People also take it personally when their passion is put down, you certainly see a lot of passion on the Wall. I'm very pasionate about golf and my wife often reminds me that not everyone shares that same passion, especially at a dinner party.

Didn't mean to cause controversy, I guess it's all relative.

Mike Ford

I just wanted to add my 2 cents. The Buderus wall hung boiler is AWESOME! I am a carpenter and I was able to install it myself with carefull reading of the instructions. I replaced a oil fired furnace with this glimmering white trophy of a boiler. If I could only figure out what all those buttons are for! ha-ha.

[Deleted User]

Hey Mike!!

Just curious, where did you buy your Buderus boiler from?

They are a slick unit...

ME

Brian

Taco Radiant Block

You say you use install a lot of oil boilers.If you're looking for a great mixing device try the Taco Radiant Block.I normally use mod/con boilers but I was called in to complete an ongoing reno that had an existing oil boiler so I tried the Taco block.I couldn't get over how easy it was to install and set-up.Don't get me wrong, in a whole house low temp application I'm going to install a GB142 but you need to make the choice that you will be most comfortable with.There's a world of options out there for you to choose from.

Good Luck

Dobber

Cosmo_3

Name calling

I have been a little too hectic with an injured employee and making up his lack of output to be on the wall much the past few weeks.

But I was reading over the B vs V thread, and man it does seem like some of us are considered elitists just because we have a working knowledge of the Vitodens, and are amazed by it. Why should I be afraid to say so?

I have been a little cautious about sending my customers here also. I see it more like a place for me to learn, and interact with colleagues. I have however recommended homeowners that I know are familiar with the trade (or tradespeople in general), and wouldn't get sidetracked by a few comments. I think it would be difficult to come here with no knowledge or experience in the contracting business and not become confused.

Nothing against the other manufacturers- it is up to us (the contractors) to sell ourselves, and spec the equipment we think best fits our customers needs and budget.

I do not "only" install Viessmann. I sell lots of Crown boilers, and have even installed a whole bunch of Buderus, Weil's, and Peerless to name a few in my time. Personal preference is just that....personal.

Cosmo

Will Merryman_2

I am a homeowner

And really like this site. The discussions on the merits of each company and their methods is quite enlightening.People will think their car or truck is the one to have, same for snomobiles. Get in on a conversation with them and that makes what I read here mild in comparison.

I read and consider where people are coming from. In no way do I see any negatives against any company.Most people want to validate their purchase decisions,so the brand name alegiance is to be expected.

I know the time will come when I will have to change out my boiler and I want as much info as I can get so I can make an informed decision.
What would settle the debate is an organization like Consumer Reports doing a test on boilers.I think I will email them and make a suggestion. Just think, a dozen homes all indentical in every way with different companies boiler.Then the results would tell the story.

scott w.

this site

I am a first time homeowner/lurker/poster who enjoys this site a great deal. I found this site after my boiler replacement was completed. I was very lucky on the change out when it came to the heating contractor which I only realized after reading posts on this site! I had zero knowledge of hydronics. Didn't get any bids just used the the firm that had the best reputation.

I would hate to see this as a contractors only site. I have learned a great deal of info on hydronics and have enjoyed hydronics so much am contemplating a career change.

I enjoy posts where some have strong feelings for certain products. When backed by facts. Don't like when it resorts to name calling which is rare. Yes, sometimes posters do "chew up" the homeowner when they don't always have the facts. Sometimes posters ignore the original question but it is still a great site with some knowlegable people who kindly share said knowledge,

To get a real feel and understanding for the site you just can't read a few posts. Like any education it takes time and effort

burninben

Jeffrey

I've been on my own now for about 5 years and been to a few classes on mod/cons. I use the Triangle tube prestige. I find that they are very installer/tech friendly. I dont know what the availability is in your area. I am in MN where most systems are forced air but w/ all of the units I have in operation I have had very little probs. We are also nat. gas or L.P. so i guess that would be different too. Don't be intimidated by them they are well worth a little extra work.

Mark_46

Hi Jeffrey

I am a homeowner who has been reading, learning (a lot) and contributing to this site for about 3 or 4 years now. I have a pretty comprehensive mechanical/technical background but in another industry. So I enjoy and value this site from both a technical AND homeowner perspective. That's my opinion. I don’t know of many other sources where you can get something close to the truth (or at least lots of quality opinions based on real-life experiences) about this type of equipment. It’s tricky and confusing because there are no standards, every house and building is different.

To me any heating or cooling system is about two things 1) comfort and 2) efficiency, in that order. But one without the other doesn’t make much sense. Comfort is pretty straight forward: 69-70*, 40-50% humidity level during heating and maybe 73-74*, 50-60% humidity during cooling, agree? But efficiency is where everything gets real, real tricky. It’s much more difficult to achieve.

Enter mod/con technology. This is the latest and greatest way of wringing out as much energy as possible from the fuel type being used. Fuel efficiency should always be in vogue.

A homeowner or building owner who 1) isn’t interested in the highest efficiency possible, 2) won’t take the time to weed through information on an expenditure as large as a heating and cooling system, and 3) isn’t thinking beyond a system’s initial cost is not thinking much about the big picture. Although it’s been said the customer is always right and we can't forget the one paying the bill, it seems to me Mod/Con technology and controls are not the problem in the example you described. Rather, there are people who are shutting out new technology, don’t want to listen to debate, discussion, opinions or new ideas...all topped off with a side-order of fear.