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Carbon Monoxide
Comments
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I read the story twice
and I still don't know what "heater" was the source.
In any event Story
Mark H
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Ambulence source of CO poisoning!
Faulty ambulence
Mark H
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And still no-one knows
Where did it come from?
Mark H
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John,
Wonder how many West Virginia heating contractors, service technicians and appliance repairmen know about this code requirement. Found it on the West Virginia Fire Marshal's web site. http://www.wvfiremarshal.org/WVSFMO & State Code.htm
§29-3-16a. Smoke detectors in one- and two-family dwellings; carbon monoxide detectors in residential units; penalty.
(g) When repair or maintenance work is undertaken on a fuel-burning heating or cooking source or a venting system in an existing residential unit, the person making the repair or performing the maintenance shall inform the owner or lessor of the unit of the dangers of carbon monoxide poisoning and recommend the installation of a carbon monoxide detector.
(h) Any person who violates any provision of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not less than fifty dollars nor more than one hundred dollars.
Bet not many.
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News segment
Thought you all might be interested in this news segment I did in Grand Rapids, Mi regarding the performance and reliability of 'commonly available' CO alarms.
Pretty much substantiates the concern about UL 2034 approved alarms that are being discussed here.
The reporter who interviewed me was pretty sharp. She was amazed at the results of her own tests.
The link is at:
http://www.bacharach-training.com/Channel 13.wmv
Neither the NCI nor the CO-Experts units were demonstrated here because they are not UL approved (the point of the segment). I know from experience that either of these monitors would have been sounding immediately on exposure.0 -
But Tom
"time period" for who? An infant? An elderly person? A person with a heart condition? A person with asthma? How about a fetus?
The fact is that these levels were set for alarms because of the "Chicago Story". Read it if you haven't yet.
Did you know that cell phones can trigger some CO alarms to sound? I didn't until I read about it. In fact, I spend about 4 hours a night surfing the net for CO stuff. Some nights more. I am addicted to it.
From what I have seen, most of the larger manufacturers of CO alarms are using electro-chemical sensors now but they still comply with UL2034. Plain and simple, UL2034 came to be because of "false alarms" on the early Co sensors. Too many call to the fire departments so they "dumbed down" the alarms. The electro-chemical sensors are not fooled by hair-spray or oven cleaner. Why would anyone make them perform at the same level??
UL2034 will kill someone if it hasn't already and I guarantee it has sickened thousands. The local utility around here will clear a building when CO hits 12ppm BUT a UL2034 alarm is FORBIDDEN to alarm at that level.
And while I am thinking about it....why do people call the fire department when the CO alarm goes off? Do they call the fire department if they have no heat or hot water?? Should they call me if the smoke alarm goes off? Tell me, if you can, what makes a fireman a "CO expert"???
Mark H
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Harold
Your alarm is done. 5 years on the sensor and that comes right from Nighthawk. Anyones guess as to how accurate it ever was much less how accurate it is now.
I am glad that you are at least aware of the potential danger from combustion applainces though. You're way ahead of the rest of the pack on that one.
Mark H
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In Georgia
After a storm with power out, family uses a generator.
One thing I want you all to notice, look at how many CO cases there were in Georgia in 2004. 3000!!!!
In any event, a 17 year old boy was killed by CO and his family was nearly killed as well.
Teen killed
Mark H
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In Massachusetts
Here is the story that the media couldn't get the sex of the toddler right. First it was a girl, then it was a boy, then it was a girl again. In any event, a father and his 2 year old child were poisoned.
Father and child
Mark H
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North Carolina
Guy was using a space heater to heat his home since his gas was shut off.
North Carolina
Mark H
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Mark -
I'm not defending the manufacturers or the standards, merely trying to explain why a given unit will not alarm at a level that you and I and many others feel that it should. In my lifetime I have worked with asbestos, carbon tetrachloride, methylene chloride, mercury, sulphur dioxide, all kinds of VOC's and chlorinated hydrocarbons, and other dangerous substances which I am sure were known by someone to be hazardous at the time. I was in this trade 20 years before I learned that when the Freons that are banned by the Montreal Protocol were heated to 475* F. they break down into phosgene gas (the nerve gas used in WWI).... Anyone who smokes in refer rooms, take note.... And they replaced ammonia because they were not flammable or "toxic". By the grace of God, and maybe my Irish-Italian stubberness, I am still on the green side of the grass, but I am not happy about that lack of information.
I can see that you feel very strongly about this subject, and I stand with you. In addition to testing for CO in the homes you service, why not give the HO a copy of the UL standard and the other literature you refer to that describes its shortfalls? And maybe a list of the websites you mentioned?. Knowledge is power.0 -
CO Pulse Oximeter
Singh,
If your wife doesn't know there is a new pulse oximeter which reads only carbon monoxide in the blood. The EMT's can now test for CO levels at the emergency site even if the patient is unconscious. One of the drawbacks of Bachrach's Breath Air Module for the Monoxor II.
Heard that there is a long wait period to get them because they are a hot item with the medicals.
http://www.medgadget.com/archives/2005/03/rad57_pulse_coo.html
http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=83212
http://www.mariettatimes.com/news/story/new65_13200682959.asp0 -
Close call
Dad forgot he left the car running in the garage.
Link here
Mark H
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Another mischevious vent
has decided to come apart. An alert mom saved the day.
Alert mom
Mark H
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Ughhh
I post this story with a word of warning. There is a line in this story that states 39ppm is a "safe amount" of CO in a home. That is WRONG!!! Our local VFD puts on packs at 10ppm CO. If 39 is safe, why the packs?????
Anyway, another furnace decided on it's own to try and kill a family. It went to the "faulty" side of the force. Kids had "flue-like symptoms" for a few days (On Tuesday night the children -- two daughters, 7 and 14 years old -- began vomiting and were still nauseous on Wednesday morning.)and Dad ended up in a hyperbaric chamber.
Get trained folks. Service techs and installers, bug your bosses. Owners, get your people trained.
Lucky to be alive
Mark H
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Nicole's law
Heating equipment continued to be the leading cause of carbon monoxide incidents.
Written by a fireman that did a bit of reasearch. Just a bit mind you.
Mark H
P.S. The lawyers are coming
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Another close call
The son of an old guy whose AC I had serviced a couple years ago called last night about 7PM. He informed me that the hospital had just called him and stated that his mom had tested positive for elevated CO levels in her blood. They had taken her in on Monday thinking she was having some heart trouble. She is 87 and has congestive heart failure but the hospital had ruled that out. He also told me that his dad who was still in the house was complaining about not feeling well either.
I told him to get his dad out of the house and I'd be over in a couple hours. When I got there they had opened the house up and aired it out. So I lit everything and tested the furnace, gas cook stove and oven along with the water heater, in that order. The furnace checked out OK as well as the stove, but when I went outside (older modular home) to check the water heater I found the combustion air inlet louvre completely blocked off with styrofoam insulation. Seems the old boy was tired of the wind blowing through the louvre and snuffing his pilot out so he sealed off the water heater compartment. I mean tight, insulated and duct taped air tight.
It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what was going on there. Just for the sake of making sure, I left the insulation on and ran the analyzer in the house while the water heater was running. Sure enough, within about 10 minutes the ambient CO ticked up to 3, then 5, then 6 and up to 10. At that point I knew we had nailed the problem and proceeded to remove the insulation from the compartment door.
Within about 5 minutes the level in the house was dropping.
There are two things I want to point out here:
1. What you don't know can, and will kill you! SO DON"T MESS WITH IT!!!
2. There was a brand new Nighthawk detector plugged in the kitchen about 8 feet from where the water heater compartment was. IT NEVER WENT OFF AND IT NEVER SHOWED ANYTHING ON THE DISPLAY!! Does that mean anything? Does that make any lights come on for you?0 -
Whew!
You saved some lives Steve, that is a fact.
Kudos!
Mark H
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If
the flue gases are venting properly, birds do die and fall down the chimney.
If the flue gases are not venting properly, the birds build nests in the chimney.
Mark H
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Kazakhstan
This Google search is great. I get stories from all over the world.
Seems Kazakhstan has some faulty ovens.
No-one was killed.
Mark H
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CO
A while back I was selling oil contracts for a moderate sized oil co. When I arrived at the home of an elderly couple, I was warned that the wife was just getting over pnemonia, and the husband the flu. Part of the task of signing up the customer was inspection of the system, and what did I find? A blackened draft regulator, and overall sooty mess around the boiler. As it was February, I took it on myself (in my good clothes) to fish into the chimney base and remove 2- 5 gallon pails worth of sticks and debris.At least then there was a decent draft. I also put a call into my (then) office to have a service tech out there first thing in the AM. That blockage hadn't occurred overnight, and they had given no thought to the possibility that they were being poisoned in their own home. Education is the answer here.0 -
Omaha
Local football star and his Dad found dead.
Father and son
No real details yet.
Mark H
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Florida
Another generator story.
Generator
Shouldn't these things have warning labels?
Mark H
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Man and his dog
found dead in a van. A tragic story but apparently this guy "toured with the Grateful Dead" for years. But he was only 33 years old.
Here is the story
Mark H
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Update
I still get choked up when I read these GD stories.
Now the cause is a faulty furnace.
Breaks my heart over and over again.
This shouldn't happen and it would happen much less if EVERY PHVAC contractor got trained and got testing.
Mark H
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CO from wood burning
but that can't be! Only gas makes CO!
Here's proof that anythinhg that burns has the potential to kill you and you won't even know it is happening.
Mark H
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NEWS column
Hope you all can open this link:
http://www.achrnews.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,1338,166827,00.html
I already had a reader from North Carolina ask where he can get training.
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Yes it can, Mark -
Some time ago, after cleaning the chimney from a wood burning stove, I apparently did not latch the cleanout door tight. Later that very windy evening, it blew open, allowing the chimney to cool and lose the draft. CO alarm went off when the products of combustion backed up through the fan damper during an idle period. BTW, "Smoke Generators" were popular during WWII in Europe. They burned wood incompletely in a chamber which led to a special carburetor (similar to LPG carb on electrical generator engines). Since there was only one carbon molecule, the gas generated produced exactly half the horsepower the engine would have made on gasoline.0 -
Vermont
Power outage causes residents to use "alternative heat sources".
Alternative sources
Mark H
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Texas
Mom finds her son dead.
Son found dead
Mark H
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Disconnected flue
Read this. A heating company tried to fix the furnace.
Now, a special prosecuter is looking into the case.
Special prosecuter
Mark H
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Don't jump to conclusions
There is the possibility that the HO turned the gas back on after the techs left.0 -
You are correct
We should wait until all of the facts are in.
Mark H
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Thank you
I want to buy some "NCI" or "CO Expert" CO detectors. Anyone know where on Internet I can buy one?
Joe K.0 -
never mind
Hello:
Never mind I found the earlier posting regarding
www.aeromedix.com.
Joe K.0 -
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In prison
Cape County Jail
No-one killed.
Mark H
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Boston
Apparently the signs aren't working.
Building evacuated
Mark H
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co
times herald record
January 25, 2006
Greenwood Lake
Carbon monoxide victims recovering
Firefighters were called to a Cedar Road home yesterday morning after three people passed out from high levels of carbon monoxide, a lethal gas that is odorless, colorless and tasteless.
The three were taken to St. Anthony Community Hospital in Warwick and were reportedly doing fine yesterday afternoon, Greenwood Lake firefighters said. The source of the gas was malfunctioning furnace.
Fire Chief John Rader said carbon monoxide levels in the house were more than 150 parts per million. Normal levels should be well below 50 parts per million.
The house was not equipped with a carbon monoxide detector, firefighters said.
"It's the silent killer. A few more hours and they could have died," Rader said. "A (carbon monoxide) detector is a small investment that goes a long way."
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CO alarm ignored
Teacher notices strange behaviour and school officials call 911.
Story here.
Mark H
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This discussion has been closed.
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