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Question on Buderus (PAH)

Dick Swatland
Dick Swatland Member Posts: 2
in THE MAIN WALL
Looking to buy a new boiler and someone recommened a Buderus. Who can I call to get more info and what supplier would sell one to me. ****

Comments

  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    potential customer

    I had a call from a potential customer regarding the "new" Buderus GB wall-hung hi-eff gas-fired (propane in this app) boilers.

    He'd like to hear from contractors who've installed these units and I told him I'd ask on The Wall and have that info for him when he stops by this Friday.

    He has concerns regarding trouble-free service, parts availability (my concern as well & I realize that's dependent upon regional distribution - RE Michael in my case) and longevity for the aluminum block.

    Thanks in advance!

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  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,883
    Dave

    We've only done one so far and are salivating to do another.

    I feel Very Strongly that this is a fine piece of equipment. We have attended training and its Very easy to service. Its had a very long service in Europe. Buderus is a fine company to deal with.

    I think Darin Cook and Mark Hunt have installed a couple.

    Good Luck

    Scott

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  • pitman9
    pitman9 Member Posts: 74
    Parts Availability

    I'm not sure what part of PA you're in Dave, but you might check with Rood Utilities in Auburn, NY. I believe they were the original importers of Buderus and have tech support second to none. I'm sure Tom could give you some contractor's names that have installed the GBs. I know their pricing is better than REM's. At least it's better than the price we get from REM.

    Their number is 315-252-7204.
  • Supply House Rick
    Supply House Rick Member Posts: 1,399
    We sell

    To Mark & Darin (Comfortable Home Tech) the Buderus line, They have installed 7 GB142's with 2 on order. I have sold 17 so far this year and we have heard nothing but great things. Hopefully they will repond. They are as loyal a Buderus customer as you could find. And believe me, for those of you who know Mark... I would have heard about, Buderus would have heard about it the world would have heard about it if there were any problems.
  • Joe@buderus
    Joe@buderus Member Posts: 165
    Parts

    Part of the GB142 stocking program offer to the wholesalers was "replacement parts". We realize that the parts on the GB142 are unique and can't be purchased elsewhere. We also have a good inventory in Londonderry, NH and can ship parts right away.

    We did have an issue with some adaptors that did not work. The GB142's that shipped out before this was brought to our attention have been identified and we believe it has been resolved.
    The current block design has been in service for the last 15 years in Europe.
  • Brian
    Brian Member Posts: 285
    GB

    I've just put my third one in and have 6 more sold for this year.I'm thrilled with them.I installed Trinitys before and it's day and night in comparison.I plan on stocking a few basic parts like the ignitor and flame sensor only because of my Trinity experiences.As for service how many heat exchangers do you know of that you can access without any tools.I'm look forward to every one I put in.

    Good Luck
    Dobber
  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,883
    You sell to Mark ?

    God Bless You Rick !

    LOLOLO

    Scott

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  • Rick of N&S Supply of Catskill
    Rick of N&S Supply of Catskill Member Posts: 11
    Thanks

    I'm not sure if I am paid commission or hazard pay.
    No really they are the best. Anyone who has seen the work they post would agree...
  • Jim Pompetti
    Jim Pompetti Member Posts: 552


    Dave,

    We have installed 3 GB's so far and have two more scheduled before the start of this winter. I must say they are a fine piece of equipment and we haven't had any quirks or problems yet! Unlike many other condensing boilers we have had problems with from the very start. (F09) ring any bells????? I am also going to install one in my own home.

    Good luck,

    Jamie
  • J.C.A._3
    J.C.A._3 Member Posts: 2,980
    Hey PAH,

    When Joe speaks of "immediate availability on parts"....Take his word for it. The warehouse is huge and full!

    The warehouse is less than 5 minutes away from Manchester N.H. airport, and all the major delivery services fly out of there. (UPS,DHL,Fedex, and I'm sure they could get a package on a USAIR flight to Philly PA.. in very short order!). Chris
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Great product...

    and great company to work with.

    Have 3 installed and three more presold.

    One of the easiest boilers to work on I've seen. Disassembled and reassembled in less than 10 minutes.

    Nefit Fasto (Buderus' lil sister that makes these fine products) has been doing this stuff since WW2 ended.

    Go for it, you won't regret it.

    ME

    ME
  • Ray Landry
    Ray Landry Member Posts: 203


    I've installed five of them (2 residential, 3 serving a snowmelting system) and I must say I am VERY impressed. One of them has been in service 8 months or so and have had no call backs yet. they are very easy to program, and service, and comes with a free room sensor! you can't beat that
  • Mark Hunt
    Mark Hunt Member Posts: 4,908
    Biting the hand that feeds you?


    Good thing you're a GREAT supplier. Anyone less would suffer a "wall bashing" of biblical proportion!

    The GB and Buderus.

    To date, Buderus related service calls = 0. (That would be ALL Buderus products)

    Nuff' said.

    Mark H

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  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    I was wondering

    where you were! The HO stopped in this morning and we had a long chat.

    I want to thank everyone for posting. I printed out this thread and included it in the file he received this morning. We're meeting at his home next week to survey the potential installation and firm up pricing.

    He posed an intriguing question today when we were discussing the ROI. He stated he's only looking at a five year window of opportunity to offset the extra investment between the hi-eff condensing boilers vs standard off-the-shelf models, which kind of stumped me for a quick response. Good question!

    Without knowing the exact efficiency of the current boiler and the $$$ for fuel spent last year, I can't really project the savings - not yet. But, I'd bet five years of savings will offset the additional investment - especially if fuel costs escalate as dramatically as the media has been stating.


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  • jerry scharf_3
    jerry scharf_3 Member Posts: 419
    On the ROI issue

    Is this the perenial issue of "we'll be moving soon"?

    If the install reduces the operating costs by $600 per year, that translates to a $50/month reduction. See what an extra $50/month can add to the purchasing power of a mortgage.

    I have not taken anyone through this yet, but there is a thing called a Home Energy Rating Service. It takes a look at the energy savings items in the house, and for each one comes up with a lifetime saved energy value. A report is generated that for each item adds the saving over the estimated life of the component. Mortgage people like Fanny Mae (sp?) will take the report's estimated total savings and add that to the assessed value of the house when computing house value. So this is something that you can show to a buyer that "proves" the value of this kind of work.

    jerry
  • Steve Ebels_3
    Steve Ebels_3 Member Posts: 1,291
    I wish

    I wish we could install them in Michigan. Not ASME rated and I'm bummed about it.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    A few questions...

    Although our Colorado building project is still on hold due to elderly in-laws who wouldn't be able to tolerate the elevation, my architect is about to incorporate final comments into the construction drawings. I looked at Buderus' Installation and Servicing Instructions for the GB (it's very appealing, especially since Mark likes it!), and have a couple of questions for you experts.

    - Can one route the 3" PVC vent(s) through stud bays of an interior wall framed with 2x6s? There will be plumbing runs in the wall, but should be plenty of space for one or two such vents. If this is acceptable, I can have the architect delete a flue chase and make a closet larger.

    - What are the pros and cons of sealed combustion in my situation? The GB (likely accompanied by a water storage tank) would be the only thing in an 1,120 square foot unfinished basement/mechanical room with thin-slab floor. We could make the room's free vent area whatever size is appropriate if the GB's intake is from room air rather than running a second PVC line to the roof. Opinions?

    Thanks in advance for your advice.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    A few questions...

    Although our Estes Park, Colorado building project is still on hold due to sick, elderly in-laws who wouldn't be able to tolerate the elevation, my architect is about to incorporate final comments into the construction drawings. I looked at Buderus' Installation and Servicing Instructions for the GB (it's very appealing, especially since Mark likes it!), and have a couple of questions for you experts.

    - Can one route the 3" PVC vent(s) through stud bays of an interior wall framed with 2x6s? There will be plumbing runs in the wall, but should be plenty of space for one or two such vents. If this is acceptable, I can have the architect delete a flue chase and make a closet larger.

    - What are the pros and cons of sealed combustion in my situation? The GB (likely accompanied by a water storage tank) would be the only thing in an 1,120 square foot unfinished basement/mechanical room with thin-slab floor. There's considerable additional basement space that we're finishing, and this room is not expected to ever be finished. We could make the room's free vent area whatever size is appropriate if the GB's intake is from room air rather than running a second PVC line to the roof. Opinions?

    Thanks in advance for your advice.
  • Tom_35
    Tom_35 Member Posts: 265
    Break the pricing down to the ridiculous

    Dave,

    If he is set on a 5 year ROI, you might want to consider alternative pricing and then break the pricing down to how much the Buderus would cost extra per day to own.

    IE---If the Buderus is going to have an investment of an extra $4500, you can then look at the expected lifespan and effiienies of the Buderus. Break it down as to how much more it will cost per year to own, per month, per week, per day, etc. At the end, "Isn't it worth a cup of coffee per day to have the best?"

    The efficiency side of the transaction comes into play and makes things then look better for you as well.

    When we have homeowners that state that they have "time" issues, they are usually only going to be there a year, and most of the time they are there 4-5 years later. I would ask more questions about his "5-year" period.

    Good Luck,

    Tom Atchley
  • Steve Ebels_3
    Steve Ebels_3 Member Posts: 1,291
    I don't know how

    I really don't know how you could give anyone a valid ROI estimate with the volatility of fuel prices in the forseeable future. Some one tell me were gas prices are going to be in 2015 with a 90% probablility and then I can give you an estimate. Without that it's just speculation.

    There's only one thing that's for sure and that is that we will be paying even more than today.
  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    ROI

    We base any ROI on current pricing for fuel, appliance efficiency & the cost difference between appliances. No way I'd try to predict future energy costs - especially this year!

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  • Supply House Rick
    Supply House Rick Member Posts: 1,399
    Never Exalted Ruler of...

    All things Hydronic. You are the KING!


    (psst. He pays his bills on time)
  • Mike T., Swampeast MO
    Mike T., Swampeast MO Member Posts: 6,928
    Dave

    How do you manage to come up with a service life estimate for condensing or condensing/modulating boilers?

    I've heard numbers from knowledgeable people in the 7- to 25-year range. Numbers vary by equipment manufacturer and preference...
  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    impossible

    to predict! Seems to me, and this is strictly an opinion, that 20 years is not an unreasonable number - providing the system (and, by that, I mean the entire system) was designed, installed and commissioned properly - and - it will be maintained with reasonable care.

    We saw the ugly results during the early years of the first generation high-eff condensing furnaces and I have the financial scars to attest to how painful standing behind your installations can become.

    I had a similar experience with my first foray into condensing boilers. As ugly as that was, I was convinced our looming energy crisises dictated high-eff cond products are the only way to go. It kind of reminded me of my skydiving days - you gotta put your faith in the shute and the one packing it or you'd never get in the plane!

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  • Mike T., Swampeast MO
    Mike T., Swampeast MO Member Posts: 6,928
    Great Answer Dave!

    Let's just hope specialized replacement parts are available for that long...
  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    our trade show this past weekend

    We set up a display for HVAC & hydronics this past Sat. Part way through the day, it struck me just how much things have changed in so few years. Where we would have had 80+ heating appliances and 10-SEER on/off equipment, we had - instead - a booth full of high eff boilers & A/C units. Most of them - including the Mitsubishi Inverter A/C and heat pump units - modulate their energy use & Btu production based on outdoor reset and how quickly indoor conditions are changing.

    We had but one "standard" eff unit - a direct-vent tank-style water heater. And, we had another three ways to heat domestic water on display: indirect; flash or tankless; and combi domestic/hydronic (separated via a FP HX, natch).

    Interesting to note how much of an influence the European technology has had in our lives. Tis a wonderful time to be involved in our changing world!

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  • Mike T., Swampeast MO
    Mike T., Swampeast MO Member Posts: 6,928


    Rather a pity that it takes near crisis to jar consumers from their old ways.

    Secretary of Energy recently gave speech saying that fuel shortages were a distinct possibility this winter. Not sure if he's referring to heating oil, natural gas, gasoline or all of the above.

    With enough of that sort of equipment installed, a possible crisis could become a "glitch".
  • Dick Swatland
    Dick Swatland Member Posts: 2
    new boiler

    Facts: Have baseboard hot water heating system with natural gas. Need new boiler. Have a separate hot water unit for domestic hot water. Need a 190,000 BTU boiler.

    Questions: What is the best most eff boiler I can buy. Does it make sense to buy 2 boilers each 90,000 BTU and have them sequenced? Is the buderus gb142 the correct unit for this application or is it more eff for hot air systems? Need answers fast as I removed my 40 year old boiler this summer and need replacement.

    **** S

  • Bob Sweet
    Bob Sweet Member Posts: 540
    **** S.

    Do yourself a favor and start a new thread at the Wall. Your questions won't get seen by all on this thread.
  • Ted_9
    Ted_9 Member Posts: 1,718
    OK

    This may get more attention if you start a new thread.

    But, since your here.

    1)Can you show us the heatloss calcs that were done?(190,000 seems big)

    2)Two boilers may work in your application but.....a condensing boiler may be better.

    3)The Buderus GB142 is a condensing gas heater("boiler"). Not a forced air unit.



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