Global warming?

S Ebels

The simple truth of the matter

It is impossible to compete with Asia for oil resources. They have money, a positive cash flow, our nation doesn't. I read last week that every US citizen is figuratively, maybe realistically, in debt to the Chinese government to the tune of almost $11,000.

You know, the thought occured to me that at the end of all this, when oil actually runs out, the world will be in very bad shape if no alternatives have been found. The irony of this situation is that the oil producing countries will likely hold all the worlds cash, but there will be nothing to buy with it.

Mark Hunt

Regulation in action

Mark H

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Maine Doug_32

Windy power

84 blades are making their way from Searsport to Mars Hill for 28 windmills. 125 feet long and weigh 8.5 tons and made in Brazil. The project cost-- about 54 million $ and when windy enough is expected to generate 42 megawatts. The main towers were built in Canada.

The paper mill in town makes 500,000 tons a year and is next to a new NG cogen plant, capacity 174 megawatt. Not wind dependent but passes some 48 million cuft of natural gas daily, fortunately quietly.

Tony Conner

How...

... hard does the wind have to blow to make the rated power on the windmill project? How many hours on an average month does the wind actually blow that hard? How many MW do they generate when the wind isn't blowing at all? Oh, wait...

174 MW for the cogen sounds like a lot. It isn't. What's the peak power demand for Maine? In Ontario, it's about 40,000 MW, if I'm remembering correctly. Burning natural gas - a beautiful fuel - in a gas fired plant like that. To me, that's a shame. The price tag for that gas will be a shame as well.

Those people who subscribe to the line of thought that says human activity is driving global warming have a simple choice to make. Nuclear power, or return to an economy that is basically a subsistance farming society.

Tony Conner

So...

... how hard does the wind have to blow to make 42 MW? How many hours a month does it actually blow that hard? How much power do these generate when the wind isn't blowing? Oh, wait - I know the answer to that one... So where does the power come from then?

I'd be interested in seeing the economics for the gas fired cogen at the mill. I've worked in cogen - tough to get a payback unless the electric power costs are brutal. I wonder why the power costs would be brutal? Oh, wait, it's because everybody has been imagining that there's an unlimited source of cheap natural gas. More bad news... The peak power demand for Ontario is about 40,000 MW, if I remember correctly. What's the peak demand for Maine? I suspect that a handful of 174 MW cogen plants won't even be a blip on the chart. If the misguided effort continues to keep burning natural gas & #2 oil in large industrial & utility plants, and not go back to coal, or take the nuke option, get ready for power rates to spike even higher, along with the cost of those fuels.

People who really believe that human activity is the cause of global warming have to make a choice. Get ready for a building boom for nuclear power plants that dwarfs any construction program for anything seen in the past, or prepare for a very ugly shift with respect to the economy.

Doc_2

More than Viable alternatives

Japan's Geothermal sector is comprised of 13 plants with a designed capacity of over 639 megawatts. No pultion...just clean power. Their plants range in age from 30 years old to just under 10 years old. (Scorce: Japn electric information Center Inc.) I can't understand why we're not doing more in this country with this proven technology.
And in direct coment to the whole glogal warming debate...yes we are a rather dirty and wasteful species...but man's arrogance is simply amazing... to think that we can alter a planet in less than 200 yrs when the planets natural cycles are measured in the millions of years does give the chance to laugh at the alarmists. thanks for letting get my 2 cents in

Kendall

global warming and cycles

Is it still possible to actually find research that has not been politicized on 10 year, 20 year, 50 year, 100 year, 1,000 year, etc., cycles? 2 simple examples - we found a small beach in Hawaii behind a house and the owners told us that every ten years different scientists visit the beach to prove or disprove global warming, some come on the fives and some on the tens and year one there is a 50' beach, on year five there is water to the bulkhead, on year ten there is a 50' beach and the year five scientists yell global warming and the year ten scientists say bah - second example - the hundred year flood plain means that observation tells us that even if the beautiful bottom land by the river has not flooded in 90 years, anyone planning to be within the 100 year flood plain should be aware that sooner or later it will. Weather does the same thing and within 10,000 years the next ice age is forecast. So can we still find the research that tells us whether the ice packs melted some 50 years ago or 100 years ago or 500 years ago? And if this is not a cyclic change that has repeated over the millenia, is a bit of global warming maybe good if the ice is going to return full force?

Tom R.

Questions.....

instead of answers:
What was wrong with ammonia as a refrigerant?
Why do we replace CFC's with refrigerants that use more power input per BTU? Doesn't the generation of this power cause pollution, too?
Why do the newest programmable thermostats permit heating settings to 90 deg., and cooling to 35 deg.?
Why do we use such a convenient cooking fuel as natural gas to burn in boilers to produce electricity? What will we use when that is gone?
Why can you still buy incandescent light bulbs? When will we learn?
Great discussion. Glad to be back.
TR