need help pricing jobs

Mad Dog

I'm with Bob O on this one....................................

This "fish" stinks to high heaven. Why is he not giving us lic. numbers? Why should we encourage or aid someone who is most likely not licensed. If I'm wrong, I'll apologize. Waiting for an answer. Mad Dog

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DanHolohan

Matt,

do you really want to go there?

Mad Dog

Yes, respect! How about showing respect to the licensing

procedures that are out there. Where's the direspect? I didn't see any, just some concerned "licensed" professionals who care about standards and keeping the bar high in our industry. These debate comes up every so often
and the line is drawn: The guys who moonlight or work full-time as unlicensed "professionals" attack those who are [licensed] as mean, parochial, arrogant, et al. Them I understand. The guys who are licensed and worked hard to get there I do not. Is the time you spent...the years study, gaining experience under a Master come that cheap? Not for me. I don't fault a man for doing a little moonlighting here and there to make ends meet. I'm not one of those holier than thou flat raters (Yes, we are big believers in flat rate pricing however, just not every idea)
that expect an employee to NEVER a) take a second job. b)do a little moonlighting. As a first generation Plumbing and Heating contractor, you bet your a(*)(*)(* I had to do some moonlighting to get things going. However, I never took a job from the company and the big thing ....AND IT WAS A TEMPORARY situation. I was in my twenties, had RESPECT for the license and worked my rear end off to get it. I see grown men that simply ignore and bypass all licensing and insurance rules and in many cases, Licensed people who are willing to "sign off" and pull permits for them. They are the catalyst that perpetuates the problem. If the guys who thumb their noses at us licensed guys put in the time and money as we have, then they too would get rather testy when this subject comes up. A recent example: A couple of months ago, there was a rather quiet time as far as work on Long Island. Several contractor friends (quality guys)were struggling for work. Another friend of mine who works with the union 8-4 landed a nice 15,000 heating job that he will do at night and on the weekends, and his paid "holidays" This fella is actually a really a very good plumber, but he has neither license nor insurance, but he gets someone to sign off. Big deal you say? Guess who lost that job to him? 2 of the legit contractors and only for 1500-2000 difference. When you have the guts and the determination to walk away from the "teat" of a regular paycheck with benefits, you also are entitled to get p.o.'d when illegit people are taking food out of your family's mouth. "Respectfully p.o.'d" Mad Dog

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Mad Dog

Ok, we all know I can be let's say acerbic

gotta have a little fun. However, I find it very suspect that he refuses to post at least...where he is licensed. The $100 bet stands: If he can prove it, the check will go in the mail Monday. He can then buy all of Ellen's excellent books. He will also get an apology from me AND all the free business advice he'll ever want - FROM ME. Name that tune, Michael. Mad Dog

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Robert O'Connor_7

Jed.

Far enough.

Robert O'Connor/NJ

Mad Dog

Sounds good to me

I'll get the boat ready. Mad Dog

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Mad Dog

Perhaps I am the only participant here that thinks

this place is a micro-community with democratic ideals that should welcome all view points (as long as they are not nasty, racist, et cetera). That includes tempers sometimes flaring, some light name-calling, feathers getting ruffled. Is this a real-life community? I think so. And, I believe it is what makes this place cutting edge, refreshing, and informative. Sometimes the fur flies, the verbal punches get thrown, and people get their feelings hurt. At one time or another, I think we have all been put in our place. The Founding Fathers of our Great Republic
were very passionate as well and were known to yell, scream, cajole, filibuster, belittle, befuddle, sometimes brawl and occasionally duel in pursuit of the truth. I for one think it is what makes this place special...like Dan's Books....100% NO - BULL. p.s., Michael is free to email his credentials for his $100 bucks.
With The highest Respect for this Place, Mad Dog

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Rookie_3

Mad Dog

I don't see any reason yourself and a few other gentlemen here shouldn't be concerned about e-mailing your pricing schedules to someone who puts up a post but refuses to disclose any other information about themselves. I thought
pricing was not a common practice on this site. There are people out there that go to great lengths to get automobile invoicing prices to beat down the cost of a new car. Why would it be so hard to imagine that a person would pose as a licensed plumber to do the same?
BB

PS
Is that really how Michal is spelled? I'll bet a hundred that Mad Dog keeps his hundred.

Michal

FYI

YES MICHAL (MICHAEL) IS SPELLED THAT WAY IN ANOTHER NATIONALITY, IF YOU FIGURE IT OUT YOU CAN GET $100. O.K. AND TO ANSWER THE DYING QUESTION, NO I AM NOT LICENSED, I DO WORK UNDER 2 LICENSED PLUMBERS/MECHANICAL CONTRACTORS AT NIGHT AND ON WEEKENDS. ANY SMALL SIDE WORK I GET AS LONG AS IT IS NOT THEIR CUSTOMERS, I GET TO KEEP BUT I HAVE TO PRICE MYSELF, USUALLY WITH THEM I DO NOT GET INVOLVED IN THE PRICING DEALS. GUY I AM NOT OUT TO TAKE YOUR BIG JOBS, I JUST CHANGE FAUCTES, SINKS, TOILETS, CIRC PUMP, BOILER CLEANINGS, ETC. WONDER WHICH OF YOU WILL GET THAT HUNDRED BUCKS.

Kal Row

Michal - was king saul's daughter and wife of king david...

the official labor rate for a certified and bonded plumber in nyc is 142perhr and travel and shopping time billed at half that + list prices for parts - hope that helps

not going to get baited into a whole debate on whats right - cause it's a bottemless pit

Kal Row

Michal is also michael in czech

Michal

Thnaks for advice

Kal
No, your close, not czech
The advice helps alot, thanks
and yes it can be a bottomless pit.
The answer will be on by 5 pm for you all but your verey close

Mad Dog

and..the truth shall set you free...............................

Thanks for being an honorable man and leveling with us. Just so you know, Licensed Plumbers are not legally allowed to "sign-off" work for others. Does it go on? You bet. Many plumbers will do it for another licensed plumber who may not have renewed for a cetain town or county, or is waiting to pass his test. That is one thing, but there unfortunately are many, many more who make a business out of "renting" their license. It's not right and not legal. Do yourself a favor after you get Ellen's Books, put in your papers to become a licensed Plumber. Manny Troise has the best preparation classes in NYC. Step up and get licensed. You will not regret it, Michal. I'm here if you need advice on that - I mean it. One of my favorite people in the whole world was a Pole - he's on a non-stop flight to heaven right now. Good luck, get your papers in order, and start studying. Mad Dog

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Robert O'Connor_7

I'm guessing??

Polish?

Just a little chatter on this side O'Ye Hudson.

http://www.nj.gov/lps/ca/proposal/plupro45.htm

I appreciate your honesty and would also assist in your quest for knowledge. I just think everyone needs to be equal. As far as not posing a threat??

I bid on a job at a state college and went to the bid opening for which we were the lowest most responsible bidder (this is usually followed up by a letter requesting additional info, bonds and the YOU GOT the JOB letter). It never came????? Why? Because it did not get awarded to the colleges preffered contractor. The job in question was given to an unlicensed contractor who was acually on the states list of barred contractors. WHATSUPWITTHAT? The college (so as to comply with the bid process legally) sent the job back to the engineering department and then to finance and it got approved to move forward but without going to re-bid. They simply break up the payments with certain thresholds (in this case $19,000) X 10, that way they can use anyone. This particular contractor is acually a FULL TIME PAID fireman. My, my, my, what tangled webs they weave. Can I compete? Not when the job is sent to bid as a prevailing wage job. Not when the job is sent out with the SBA/WBE RFP. How can I compete against someone without a license, bond ect.. when this outfit hires all the off duty buddies who get the health benefits and fringes paid for by a municipality who YOU may be paying property tax to. My friend stated to me a few years back (he by the way has all his licenses) Why hire a Master Plumber? Why not hire an off duty fireman? Why? Cause you'll get a toilet that gives a good flush the first time and a shower that will acually clean the soap out of your hair at a temperature that would acually clean you off.
If I weren't so old I'd probably try to become a fireman instead.......HEY MICHAL!! need any help?

Robert O'Connor/NJ

Kal Row

could be slovak...

i use to have a painter that said -
"zer iz no sach ting ahs che-kos-slo-vak-iya, you ahrr ah check or ah shhhlovack - i ahm ah shhlovack!!"

but Michal is common to the Balkans - nicknamed mi-sha, or mi-shu or simply mish

Mad Dog

Cute quip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately, every day in any paper one can read about how the real police and firemen have to respond to calls that the "heating police" weren't able to get to. Death by gas explosion, by Carbon monoxide, children being scalded.....all after the fact. Signed "me-too!" aka Mad Dog

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Mad Dog

Dead on Mr O

They work for the extras...extra boat, car , vacation home - we work to eat and pay the mortgage. Mad Dog

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Robert O'Connor_7

Matt.

Let's just throw the towel in and go to work for Michal Flat rating jobs (or maybe do it T&M, I'm soooo confused)

Robert O'Connor/NJ

ps: Did you get your C-Note yet?

Michal

answer is

Well answer is I am Polish, (Dzienkuje bardzo duzo), Thanks alot in polish. I am in the process of getting the papers, I do this to pay for school, and other expenses, I learned all this from my father whom passed recently, was a foreman plumber for the local municipality. thats how I put myself through college, I did not mean to be elusive in posting the truth, just today you have to be careful, I know there are rules and thing and I respect them and draw the line when I do not feel comfortable doing a job, I rather lose or make no money then risk everything. But once again guys, thanks alot. Thanks for the extension of support too, means alot

Rob, can I email you please

Robert O'Connor_7

Did I win??

Yes, of course you can.

Robert O'Connor/NJ

Michal

yes you did

may I get your email please

Robert O'Connor_7

Michal

Just click on reply and scroll up.

Robert O'Connor/NJ

Ragu

Retrospective

I think this post has gone to some places that weren't initially anticipated, but definitely needed to be talked about. To put the emotion aside in this situation is very difficult.
My route was the old way: apprenticeship, school and time in the trade. When I finally made the jump to going on my own, my learning really started.
Lesson number one was the financial committment: licenses, insurance, vehicle, tools etc. Basically, all the "stuff" that it takes to be legal and equipped; gee, skill alone doesn't cut it.
Lesson number two was that there was no guaranteed 40 hour paycheck every Friday.
Lesson number three was that this darn self-employment takes up most of my time and energy.
Lesson number four was that a lot of guys do this job as a sideline, using their boss' van, tools and parts. They don't have to pay for their license, they are not insured, they don't have to buy uniforms etc. They get all of their after-hours work by charging less than those of us who do this for a living. I this fair and equal? No. Does this happen everywhere? I would think so. Will this end? I doubt it. What do I do about it? I do the best job I can, I continue to learn, I work at pricing myself correctly, I educate customers and I sleep contentedly at night. Everybody makes mistakes, and everybody deserves a chance. Personally Mical(correct?), I'd like to see you come aboard and be a Pro. Best.

Michal

Well I am going to go 360

Well guys I know what your saying, and I have gotten the proper information and will be contacting people. But yes, I will become a licensed professional and do it the right way, might take me a bit, but I will do it, and I hope one day our paths cross profesionally

Paul Mitchell_2

Hey Tommyoil

I sent a letter to the board of master plumbers asking if they would consider a class "B" license. Covering residential backflow preventers for heating systems and hot water heaters. The official response I got was that they do not find a need for this and I should get a working relationship with a plumber. Bottom line to me is they are protecting their own. I thought if they would offer a class B then we would have more permits filed and things doen right.

EJW

Nicely said Ragu