Radiant Tube

Constantin

Allegedly,

they improve the heat flow, or at least that's what they're claiming on their patent application. Those sorts of claims are so blatently wrong in terms of their Thermodynamic applicability that I wonder how even the USPTO accepted the claims on face value.

On the other hand, Dale hasn't taken me up on my offer to put him in touch with some patent contingency lawyers I know in CA, so I guess the patent infringement will continue.

DVW

Tube is tube as long as

its got a big W on it.

- Sorry had to do it!

The DVW -

DVW

Construciton adhesive is not good

> some time ago. We could do the peel & stick with

> high bond adhesive tape, but it would have to be

> of a decent thickness, like at least .020" and it

> limit the heat transfer over all of the plate as

> there would be not be a place that contacted the

> floor directly.

>

> The cost for something

> appropriate would be quite high. Plus I don't

> know about cooking all that tape under my floor.

> You'd want something that could handle the heat

> without outgassing.

>

> I think that buying

> silicone sealant or construction adhesive and

> troweling it on with a notched trowel would be

> more appropriate....wear a hat. : -)

>

> I don't

> think any of it is worth it. Put a few more

> staples into it.

>

> Dale

DVW

Construciton adhesive is not good

It becomes gooey when it gets hot - learned that the hard way

Dale Pickard

Construction adhesive


I believe you. Gooey....yuck.

I don't think adhesive is a good answer because then there is more material under all of the plate Anything solid will be better than air but good contact is better than anything.

Dale

Bob Knebel

With all due respect Tim ....

Tim Doran:

I want to respond to your post “Toy?” of 3/27/05 in which you asked the following questions: “So you worked this stuff out over 12 years ago and did it without us and in spite of us. Why then was a link to our web site and our logo on your web site as recently as two to three years ago? It wasn't long ago that the empty block that used to be our logo was still there. Why then were you also looking for our business in the not so distant past? "

No doubt our website is dated and needs work. We apologize for the "shadow" empty box that used to be a link to Uponor Wirsbo. We will correct that in the future.

With all due respect Tim ...... Radiant Engineering, Inc. as an engineering, design, manufacturing, and distribution company has marketed, specified, and sold a very respectable amount of "your employer's" product up until a few years ago. I assume you can search past financial records. We distributed Wirsbo products for about 7 years. In one snowmelt project alone in Kenai Alaska we specified and sold 22,000 feet of 3/4" HePEX, 1000 feet of 3” HePEX, and 2300 feet of 3.5” EcoFlex to the Mechanical Contractor.

We were approached early on in our 25 year history to employ Wirsbo products in our designs and to work them into finished projects. It wasn't so much that we were looking for Wirsbo's business as they were looking for ours. At the time we were interested (and still are) in the best products available to offer our customers. We never did take take issue with Uponor Wirsbo tubing product quality. We ended up being disappointed with the business partnership, cooperation, loss of our trusted manufacturer’s representative, and changes in the terms of distribution.

You asked: "Why then were you also looking for our business in the not so distant past?" I have to assume that you know the history. Radiant Engineering attempted in good faith to provide access to our ThermoFin products. However, Uponor Wirsbo decided on a different path.

In the final analysis, a lot of Radiant Engineering business went to Wirsbo and none of it went in the reverse direction. Please do not try to suggest that our company was somehow riding the coat tails of Uponor Wirsbo.

As an aside, I read RB’s bio for you. Thanks for your service to the U.S. Marine Corps. My father was a Lt. in the Marines on Okinawa and in Japan during reconstruction. He got busted up pretty badly and lost a lot of friends but still goes to reunions of the remaining Marines. I’m really lucky to have a tough 84 year old Marine for my father.

P.S. Not long ago I referred a Minnesota architect and engineer to Wirsbo for an upcoming slab-on-grade school project. I hope that proves to be a good connection.

Bob Knebel / Radiant Engineering / V.P. / P.E.

ScottMP

Bob

May I suggest that your responce and representation of your company does a better job promoting the company than Dale's post.

The tone of Dale's post make me question why I would use the product and expect a profesional responce to issuies in the field.

I like Honey much more than vinager.

Scott



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Troy_3

Transfer Plates

I think we all can feel Dale's frustration in having his hard work ripped off and copied. I feel for him. When a bohemith rips you off and knows you can't afford to fight back it is wrong. Competition is good and helps us all improve. It always amazes me when competitors steal technology make small changes that sacrifice performance and claim it is an improvement. Before you condemn Dale I say put yourself in his shoes. Tell me you wouldn't be bitter. Tell me you wouldn't want to at least hold the facts up to be judged. Wirsbo has done a lot for this industry but this move I feel is a black eye and a bully tactic. It is small innovators like Dale that will make big advances in this industry as long as the big bullys don't stomp them. The performace will keep me using Dale's plates. His knowledge and backup have been Great. The backup I received from RTI when I purchased junk plates was nothing but excuses.

Tony_8

I agree with Scott

Sour grapes is very unappealing. Maybe justified, for a while, but unappealing nonetheless. Carrying around resentment, especially so openly, is not productive. Been there, done that, moved on. Life much easier now.

Let people decide for themselves which is the better product and leave it at that.

Business isn't always nice.

Hole drilling Noobie

how about...

does it have to be subfloor work? runtal floor warmers work well if not i would go with a plate job...rather than fin i mean. not that im downing fin i just think contact with the floor being that theres carpeting down might be the answer

Tom_35

Well put Scott---

I agree that maybe Bob would be a better spokesman for Radiant Engineering. I would certainly think that Dale has ruffled far more feathers than he could ever think about smoothing.

We have dealt with a manufacturer that has a very unique product that saves a huge amount of energy on electric and gas bills. The Problem---the guy is a real **** to deal with. He can't get people to get on board with his product simply because of him. If he would stay behind the scenes and concentrate on R & D, let someone be the face of his company, his sales could skyrocket---because he really does have a great product---just as RE does.

A national manfacturer opted to go to another method of ventilation, knowing that it would not be as efficent and would be more costly, just because of the owner attitude.
This was just 1 job that was around $70,000---but it was also in 1 small area of the plant. This plant has locations throughout the country and this type of decision has to come from the home office and they aren't about to let this guy's product into their plants.

What's the saying that words can be sharper than a 2-edged sword? Listen up Dale.

Tom A

Kal Row

yeah, and If noise is no object either!!!

Kal Row

new thread for related question...

posted related question in a new thread
"tubing contact in radiant subfloors...?"