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Off topic Slightly - Plumbing Vent

Terry St.james
Terry St.james Member Posts: 25
Has this been an on going problem? When was the last time you had your tank cleaned? Is the ground around your holding tank soggy? I would also check if the vent on the roof is the right distance from any openings(i.e. windows).
Don't know what the code reads there but here it must be 3.5 metres (roughly 9'0") from any fresh air openings, this includes windows.
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Comments

  • Mike Z.
    Mike Z. Member Posts: 23
    Vent

    Hello All, I have been here in the past with my heating questions, and now i have a question about plumbing in general. I live in Upstate NY and the problem i'm having is every now and again when i am near an open window or out in the yard, i smell sewer gas. It is a septic system and it and the plumbing were installed a little over a year ago. The house is a 6000+ Sq ft. single story house with a 3/12 pitch on the roof, it actually looks like an airplane wing because the pitch is so low and the building is so big. So im thinking maybe as the air flows over the roof it picks up the plumbing vents fumes and carries them down to the ground as opposed to lifting them up and away? the veny in like 12-18" above the roof line. I'm not sure if this is the case because the vent line doesnt vent 24/7 does it? i was thinking it only vented when a fixture was used, but maybe this is the reason for smelling it intermittenly. also i noticed that there is no trap in the main soil line befoe it leaves the house and enters the septic system, is this required? Thanks in Advance.
  • Mike T., Swampeast MO
    Mike T., Swampeast MO Member Posts: 6,928


    The venting portion of a plumbing system is always open to the atmosphere, so yes it's "venting" 24-7. The purpose of venting is both to prevent traps from self-siphoning and to remove any noxious (and frequently flammable) gas to the atmophere.

    I'm not very famililar with septic systems. "House traps" (in the main soil line after it leaves the house) are no longer required or recommended when connected to public sewage systems. Illustrations I find do not picture a house trap used with septic systems.

    I have smelled sewer gas from properly functioning plumbing systems--usually on calm summer nights when moisture-laden air is "sinking".

    Sewage gas produced in the septic tank is supposed to vent to the atmosphere via an outlet in the leach field. I believe that excessive odor is a sign that something is wrong in the septic system and gas is backing up into the house.

  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
    First..

    close the doors to all the bath rooms. turn off the hrv, go outside and get a breath of fresh air. come back in and chck ech bathroom. the one that stings your sences you need to check or rplace the wax ring. ..put water in the sinks and baths and showers First. another thing you can try is pull the cap off the up right on your tanks out side....see if that allows the system to breath.....
  • jp_2
    jp_2 Member Posts: 1,935
    tank venting

    mike, at least up here, the outlet pipe to the feild is low in the septic tank. as you can imagine this lets only fluid into the feild and the 'floaties' or solids float at the suface. otherwise the field would clog up.

    so the gases must go back to the house for venting.

    next time go up on the roof and 'smell' around.

    I had this same thing happen awhile back. had the tank pumped and found that the outlet pipe was not connected right(broken), open at the top of tank. so I guess the gases were just escaping through the feild.

    i could smell sewer gas in the yard and assumed the tank needed to be pumped. haven't been back to the site so I can't say for certain the probem is gone.
  • Ron Schroeder
    Ron Schroeder Member Posts: 998


    House traps are prohibited in most codes now, especially with public septic systems. Some codes still allow them with private septic systems but most don't require them. They really are a carry over from when there weren't traps under each sink. The main house vent is all that is needed if there is no house trap. If there is a house trap, then you need to vent the septic tank seperatly.
  • jackchips_2
    jackchips_2 Member Posts: 1,338
    Sometimes

    just by putting a 45 on the vent through the roof will deflect the odor.

    I have also heard of carbon filters being attached to the vents although I haven't used them myself. You could try google.

    Good luck, Mike as I had a similar annoying incident many years ago and the 45 degree offset actually worked after many tries of different remedies, including raising the vents.

    Jack
  • house waste trap

    House waste trap is a big no-no for septic system, gases produced in septic tank needed to be "burped" or "fart" like we do... Usually the main plumbing stack or vent carries the gases out to the atmosphere.. Since you explained the large roof with little slope, u just may needs to raise the vent another 16" higher to create more "draft" and putting a 45* fitting on depending the prevailing winds will work.
    Those fixtures that u don't use much and floor drains, traps will evaporated and sewer gases will be noticable, u can pour veggies oil in trap to prevents same..
  • singh
    singh Member Posts: 866
    no trap

    whatever you do , don't trap the septic or add house trap for reasons given.
    I live upstate and have the same 3:12 pitch roof. I occassionaly get
    the smell from my vents, thought about raising vent, but that looks ugly.
    I suggest just get used to it. I don't think the charcoal vent caps are code yet.

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  • EJW
    EJW Member Posts: 321
    Vent

    How close is the vent to the peak? I like to get them as close as possible to catch the breeze. Dont put a charcoal filter on it. There is a screen in it that the steam will freeze to in the winter, and then you have no venting at all. House traps were only installed on city sewer lines years back to keep rats from coming up the pipe.

    EJW
  • to keep?

    To keep the rats out? No way... Them rats can swim under water at length to get where they want to go.. The main sewer trap on city sewer was just to keep their gas from coming into homes in case the home traps; ie floor drains go dry. That was the time before central air,humidfier drain going into drains, etc
  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    The cure

    Not what some folks like to hear, but I've proved it numerous times and, most importantly, it works.

    http://www.contractormag.com/articles/column.cfm?columnid=244

    Aside from the trap some folks claim is not warranted, it's the fresh-air vent that scours your piping and vent system with fresh air - minimizing odors while allowing the free-flow of air via natural convection.

    Your drainage system will flow more freely too.

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  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    The cure

    Not what some folks like to hear, but I've proved it numerous times and, most importantly, it works.

    http://www.contractormag.com/articles/column.cfm?columnid=244

    Aside from the trap some folks claim is not warranted, it's the fresh-air vent that scours your piping and vent system with fresh air - minimizing odors while allowing the free-flow of air via natural convection.

    Your drainage system will flow more freely too.

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  • jackchips_2
    jackchips_2 Member Posts: 1,338
    Not allowed

    in Mass Dave but maybe they are where Mike lives and certainly worth a try.

    Good article.

    Jack
  • can't open

    Can't open as it said its invailded...
  • Christian Egli_2
    Christian Egli_2 Member Posts: 812
    Blowing in the wind

    Thinking of how chimneys should protrude from the roof, and the rule of thumb I remember off hand is that the chimney should rise 1 or 2 feet above anything else that is within 10 feet. This might tell you if your pipe height should be a concern.

    I always enjoy looking at old plumbing books and the complicated piping arrangement they schemed up to provide negative natural draught ventilation throughout the home piping. Contrast this to the many homes in Europe and elsewhere that are built with no roof vents at all.

    Negative septic tank ventilation with the air vent but without the main trap might be the trick to diluting the smell and make it go away.

    Here's my off-smell question

    When we flush the toilet and it burps at the end, is it air going in or coming out of the bowl?
  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,884
    Hey Jack

    I know its not allowed in Mass .. but .. I've done it and solved the problem.

    It seems to happen the most with newer septic systems with the "candy cane" vent out in the yard. I had one customer sover over he vent with a plastic bag as a test and the smell went away. we wound up installinf a house trap made of 4" pvc ty's and no more smell.

    Some home's are just set in an area with prevailing winds or down draghts from a hill that carry the smell into the yard. Sometimes a higher vent or 45 will help but it also looks like a Mickey Mouse job.

    As I can see no safty issuie with a house trap it sometimes is the answer.

    I have heard of the carbon vent hoods but wonder about clogging from ice "hore frost" ( who came up with that ? ) or the longevity of the carbon.

    By the way Dave, my favorite was the plumber who figured the local vent went into the chimney, and so could his vent. It worked untill the owner had a bird problem and had the chimney covered over. The old decoritive pie plate covering the breach in the master bedroom, where the old wood stove used to be, hiding behind the large dresser, took me quite a while to find.

    Scott

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  • singh
    singh Member Posts: 866
    Allow me to quibble : )

    I have to disagree,Dave, installing a house trap on a septic system, is not only against codes here, but its a band-aid, and I strongly beleive can cause more problems to the septic action. Aerobic bacteria ,is the king down there, and as their name suggest, they need O2 to live ,breathe and work. That work would be breaking down the effluent. By installing a house trap you suffocate the good guys.

    If you get a chance to tour a sewage treatment plant, you would be amazed at how much air they stir into the tanks.
    Also, double trapping is illegal, I never got a good explanation on why house traps where allowed in the first place.
    I have to agree, the vent thru the roof was installed to low on the roof line, try to move further up to ridge, and make sure its at least 1' above .

    One other thing, one vent stack should should run undiminished in size up thru roof. In some areas 4" is required, thats a full 4" stack all the way to basement trunk line, from roof. For smoother ,flow and drainage.


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  • jackchips_2
    jackchips_2 Member Posts: 1,338
    Hey Scott,

    as a former Inspector and now a public official it would be hard to condone accepting an act that is against the code. Remember, the traps were declared illegal for a reason but I'll be darned if I remember why other than the blockages I cleaned over the years.

    As someone with a little common sense, if it works----.

    Jack
  • Ron Schroeder
    Ron Schroeder Member Posts: 998


    The reason that house traps are outlawed on municipal sewers are that the house vents are also the vents for the municipal sewer it's self. House traps would prevent the municipal sewer from venting. In the old - old days, municipal septic sewers and storm sewers were combined so the street drains allowed venting but once seperated, the house vents became the only vents for the whole system.
  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    septic tank digestion process

    relies on both aerobic and anerobic bacteria cultures and there's insufficient O2 to support human life in a sealed septic vault. I haven't lowered our four-gas tester into a septic tank - yet - but it might be interesting to see if there's really any O2 present. Human and food wastes off-gas as they break-down or get digested by bacteria. As a result, the septic tank percolates much as does a vat filled with beer or wine during fermentation.

    In a septic system, the home's roof vent doesn't see much flow exhausting stench that's drawn from or percolated from the septic tank by convection or its own expanding gas pressures. Most septic tanks are not ventillated unless you consider their access (if the have one) for cleaning as a vent, which typically has a cement plug or cover - meaning it's not really a vent or meant to be one. In many cases, the tank location has to be found by probing the yard in order to find it for inspection or pumping out solids accumulation.

    Now, if I have a tank full of human and food wastes that is the source of the odors, installing a house trap set is a viable selection to block those sewer gases from entry into the home's DWV system and the FA vent improves sanitation and enhances system performance. The FA vent allows fresh air to flow freely into, up through and out from the roof vent. When a WC is flushed, trapped air is no longer able to retard flow as the FA vent will permit air to be expelled ahead of the oncoming slug of water - that's fresh air that was being drawn into the DWV system, so no (or very little diluted) stink occurs during this momentary reverse air-flow.

    So, the theory that O2 is somehow being introduced into the septic tank via the home's DWV system can't be done by virtue of the roof's vent trying to exhaust via natural convection - unless the tank actually had a valid vent, which is not the case in my area.

    We work in two sewage treatment plants locally and both inject O2 in order to speed up the break-down of sewage into a sludge that can be spread on farm fields. One incorporates methane boilers and a landfill where we work installed a methane co-gen plant that doesn't work - oops.

    The long & short of it - our installation of a house trap set works. The problems were stopped immediately and no adverse affects have occured to damage the septage digestion process. It's been more than two decades since our first installation and that neighborhood is just now having sanitary sewer mains installed for connections sometime next year.

    We've been called in following years of aggravation and followed plumbing & septic companies that finally gave up. In every case, the trap set resolved the problems. 100% cure rate.

    I've had more e-mails from around the country and beyond from business owners and homeowners who were at their wit's end from failed attempts to eliminate unpleasant septic odors than from any other article I've written. Their relief at finally finding a resolution is obvious.

    As for house traps, they are required locally on municipal sewage system connections. The result is that we have thousands of customers who have trap-sets and we do not see a high incidence of stoppages other than what you'd expect from foreign objects that shouldn't be flushed in the first place.

    In one instance where I thought we'd see problems, a local inspector required we install 6" trap-sets to each store in a strip mall. Only one 1.6-GPF WC and one 1-GPM lav exists for scouring each of the house-traps. Much to my chagrin, not a single clog has occured in more than ten years time.

    I know there are areas of this country where percieved fears (unfounded) regarding house-traps has seen local code bodies outlaw their use. But, when I have customers who have exhausted every avenue for resolving this vexing problem and I have a cure that works, I really don't give a hoot what the local code says or doesn't say. My first obligation is to that homeowner and enhancing their opportunity for sanitation.

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  • Drew_2
    Drew_2 Member Posts: 158
    Venting

    Thank you Mr. Yates. It's great when you bring facts and science together. Keep it up!
  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    Ron

    I'd very much appreciate it if you have any documented details to verify what you're saying - especially regarding the origins of house traps and lack of fixture traps. From what I've seen in print, I thought NYC and Chicago led the nation in sanitation innovation and all of the drawings I've seen from that time era indicated fixture traps (many crown vented) were introduced to ward off offensive odours (olde spelling). I've tried (without success) to find historical info on house traps.

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  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    Hoar frost & pancake ice - oh my!

    Sublimation - the transformation from vapor to solid without a liquid stage - that's hoar's frost in a nutshell & it occurs in plumbing vents.

    Hoar frost.

    Hoar frost occurs when water vapour touches a very cold surface and freezes on it instantly. This can happen to the leaves and branches of plants, and will cover them with ice crystals that look like spiky fingers.

    It can also occur on other freezing surfaces such as soil and metal, and so can often be seen on cars. Hoar frost can occur at higher temperatures than rime frost – usually when the air temperature is around 0°C (32°F). However, the ground is usually much colder, and the air must be moist for the ice crystals to form.


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  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    thanks

    It's mostly applied common sense, the foundation of good plumbing practices. For some real excitement, Google "pandemics + typhoid & cholera". Chicago was first in 1918 to chlorinate their drinking water & both diseases disappeared overnight. Imagine having one in four of your city's citizens die during a few months. Those were frightening times! Modern sanitary plumbing has saved more lives than have all medical advances throughout all recorded history.

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  • Ron Schroeder
    Ron Schroeder Member Posts: 998


    Hi Dave,

    It has been many years since I looked into this subject. I started looking into it when I had to replace a collapsed drain line in my own house and found that there was no house trap. I got a lot of conflicting information, even from the building department but eventually found the specific code in the two national plumbing codes and the code in the NY plumbing code. Along the way thru the research, I found the origin of not allowing house traps in municipal systems. It was a very serious sewer explosion in the midwest in the '50's if I remember correctly. Having house traps on SOME of the houses on a municipal sewer system probably wouldn't be a problem but if they were on all houses it could be quite dangerous. I will try to find the info again.
  • Ron Schroeder
    Ron Schroeder Member Posts: 998
    Found some info

    Hi Dave,

    Here is a quote sniped out of an e-mail sent to me from a retired inspector:

    "In order to get a definite answer to you question you would need to call your local plumbing inspection department and find out what your local code says, but in the mean time let us examine the reasoning behind the prohibition of house traps under the National Model codes.

    Years ago there were no regulations concerning the proper discharge of sanitary waste and consequently most rural homes just had outhouses. In the cities they had municipal sewers which discharged directly into a local river or estuary. In those days the municipal sewers handle both sanitary waste and storm runoff, therefore the curbside storm grates served a dual purpose as vents for the sewer system.

    In those days all houses were required to have a "main house trap" which prevented any sewer gasses present in the municipal sewers from entering the structure.

    As we began building sewage treatment plants it was soon realized that a residential structure with a family of 5 will produce an average of 300gal of sanitary waste per day.

    On the other hand, an acre of land occupies 43,681sq.ft. Multiplying that by 144sq.in per sq. ft we get 6,290,064sq.in per acre. This means that for each 1/10 of an inch of rainfall we have 27,229gallons of storm runoff per acre, or to put this in perspective, each acre of land served by the storm drains would produce as much water per 1/10" of rainfall as 90 homes would typically produce in 24 hours. As you can see, it was quickly realized that the storm runoff was overwhelming the treatment plants.

    In order to resolve that problem the cities then had to put in a second set of sewer lines. The original sewer lines still running to the treatment plants to process sanitary waste. Since the storm runoff was basically plain water it could still be discharged directly into the watershed without concerns about polution.

    The problem here was that once the curbside storm grates were rerouted to the storm sewers we no longer had any vents on the municipal sanitary sewers with the minor exception of the little holes in the manhole covers. As a consequence the levels of methane and sulpur dioxide in the sanitary sewers often reached explosive levels. In fact, in 1955 in central Indiana there was a town where the main sanitary sewer under the main street actually blew up, killing dozens of people, and ripping the main street wide open.

    It was then determined that we should do away with the house main trap. Once the house trap was removed, as each house was added onto the municipal sewer the house sewer, main drain and main vent were now open from the municipal sewer up through the roof to atmosphere. In this manner every structure attached to the municipal sewer also added additional venting.

    The same holds true for septic systems. By keeping the house sewer open from the septic tank to the structure, through the main drain and on up to the main vent it allows any gasses produced in the septic tank to safely vent to the atmosphere.

    In those instances were local codes may still require a house trap, it would mean that you would also need a vent on the septic tank side of the house trap to prevent a dangerous buildup of sewer gasses in the septic tank and house sewer line.

    One little tidbit of trivia that i found interesting while reading some old plumbing codes had to do with the construction of outhouses. Everyone is familiar with the little half moon cutout commonly seen over the door of an outhouse, but who would have ever guessed that the cutout over the door was code required as a vent?"

    Ron
  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    interesting story

    Makes me wonder why our streets haven't ever exploded! Could be they over-reacted without virtue of having factual information from that incident. If not, I'm living with ticking time-bombs(G). You'd think having ventillated manhole covers lying under vehicular traffic would cause a spark or source of ignition to have occured by now.

    Continuing along that same vein of thinking, septic tanks should be exploding on a regular basis as they're less well-vented than the municipal sewer lines and, rather than flowing on to treatment, they're left to percolate and fill their void space with explosive gases!

    Personally, you can have my house trap when you pry it from my cold dead fingers. It's the cheapest insurance policy I ever bought!

    The man I apprenticed with (Paul Strayer) was once working in a sewer ditch when a backhoe working in the street caused a rupture in the gas main. Raw nat gas rushed into the sewer mains, pressurized them and followed the unfinished SS line into the home, which exploded. A brick took off the top of his assistant's head. The other homes already connected with trap sets were unaffected. Path of least resistance!

    You could also use that as the basis for requiring house traps!

    At any rate, I'd really appreciate hard evidence that was printed and published for facts (real or perceived) regarding the history of house traps and fresh air vents.

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  • singh
    singh Member Posts: 866
    I'll wait

    til codes are re written before I 'll put a house trap in a septic system.
    I had this argument before,the best was with a builder who thought he knew it all, so I put one in. The inspector came, and made me take it out. I got paid for it again.
    There is no one way arrow on a vent stack, air can travel down into septic. this is evident on windy days when the toilet water level bounces. If properly vented, when the w.c is flushed, air is pushed up the vent. Giving a place for the air to go.
    FAI is to vent the house trap, not to vent trunk lines.
    And nobody yet, has given me a good reason why double trapping is allowed. If it saves me time , sure , one house trap, eliminate all other traps under sinks etc.. that's never gonna happen.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not against house traps in general, I installed my share when I worked in the big apple. I'm just against them being used in septic systems. My common senses tell me differently. (and code)
    Best Regards.

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  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
  • ScottMP
    ScottMP Member Posts: 5,884
    Singh and David

    Singh, I don't think anyone here is talking about eliminating all other traps in the house. David is talking about adding a house trap to elminate odors from a septic tank.

    Niether you nor David have mentioned the main trap pulling in air to help flow. I find that interesting as I was under the idea that air travels not only out of the system to "push" air out of the way but also " sucks " in air to help the flow of water just as the vent on a gas can does.

    My experience with the odor problems come mostly with New Systems that have a tank vent out in the yard. David if a tank does not need fresh air to work, then why the yard vent ??

    AS I said I have installed a couple of house traps and it solved the problem.

    Scott

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  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    what goes into a T

    Scott,

    The fresh air vent I mentioned is between the trap and the home, which permits the free-flow of air and improves the building's DWV performance - exactly as you indicated.

    I tried uploading the JPEG drawing, but for some reason the new Wall won't let me post pictures. At any rate, going in the direction of flow from home to septic tank, the trap-set consists of a sanitary T laid on its back (the only time I approve using a T in the drainage line) with a riser that terminates one foot (snow) above grade with a mushroom vent cap; next comes the house trap with its riswer to grade and a CO; and lastly the Y&1/8 bend "combo" with its riser to grade with CO.

    What goes into that T must come out - of the roof vent. Any stink gets vastly dilluted and the air-flow can reverse if a large volume (slug) of water rushes down the line. 1.6 GPF water closet performance will be improved or enhanced since they're a bit more sensitive to air-binding than the older 3.5+ models. I've witnessed WC's that wouldn't flush due to a pocket of air being trapped and their subsequent improved performance once a vent is added.

    By the time any flow reaches the trap-set, it's mostly laminary and behaving quite nicely!

    The last two we "fixed" were in a very public park that sees heavy use. The odours were quite pronounced and offensive. Many complaints had been lodged. Septic co's had their turn at resolving the issues and couldn't fix or eliminate the smells. Trap-sets were installed & away went the problems. The fresh air vents scour the DWV system continually, eliminating any odors while exhausting much more air than the lazy roll-out of septic odors previously experienced. a de-stinkt improvement!

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  • Ron Schroeder
    Ron Schroeder Member Posts: 998


    Hi Dave,

    I think that it may be the vent that is diluting the odor more than the house trap blocking the odor as far as reducing the problem.

    One thing that I have very ocasionally seen is reverse flow from the roof vent down and out the F.A.I. when it is really hot outside and the A/C is on making the odor come out of the F.A.I.
  • Dave Yates (PAH)
    Dave Yates (PAH) Member Posts: 2,162
    nope

    not the case. In order for that to be accurate, the stink would have to originate from the line itself. The majority of odors produced (aside from the momentary introduction of waste - if you get my drift) eminate from the septic or municipal systems. Municipal systems that are in a strongly flowing condition don't typically have strong offensive odors. The sewers of Paris were a fascinating tour I practically had to drag my wife to visit. She was glad she went along once we started. Back to the problem child - the festering tank of poop and gray water! The HT effectively blocks those odors and keeps them where they belong - in the septic system.

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  • D.I.T.S.T.O.P.

    Dillution Is THE Solution To Our Pollution.

    In the good ol' days, the septic tank had an invert pipe which terminated below the standing water line of the tank. No air in (other than what washed in with the incoming influent) and no air out unless the septic tank could build up over 24" W.C. gas pressure, and no stinkin' septic tanks.

    Then, someone got the wise idea of putting a sanitray tee where the invert elbow used to reside, and then the fun began. Funny, the look people get on their faces when they are standing there with a friend and encounter the odor. They wrinkle their nose, seperate from each other about 5 feet and say simultaneously "Is THAT you!?!?"

    My brother, bless his stinky little sole, has put a clean out plug into the top of these tank tees successfully eliminating the stank, but has experienced "hang up flushes" on some newer low flow devices.

    Interstingly enough, the odor seems to be most prevelent during the warmer day light hours. It seems to subsibe during the cooler evening hours.

    My thoery is this. THe aerobic/anerobic digesting of solids does lead to the production of dense, stinky gasses. Gotta be, can't be stopped short of killing them completely off, and a dead septic tank is not a good septic tank. So, this gas is coming from a tank that is buried and in good contact with cooler earth temperatures. As the volume of gas produced rises to the first plumbing vent in line, it is cooler than the surrounding air, and settles down to where our proboscus olfactory glands are located, causing us to wrinkle our noses and say "EEEeeewwww".

    At night, the bacterium don't sleep like we do. They work 24/7/365. The only difference is that the air surrounding the vent becomes cooler than the "air" coming from the vent pipe, so the stench rises up and away from our probosci, eliminating the need for wrinkled noses and wild "EEEeeewww"'s running around.

    Trust me, I have raised my own share of EEEeeewww's over the years, but only at my mountain homes, both of which are on individual septic systems.

    So, knowing what I think I know about the sitchimication, I decided that dillution is the solution to our pollution.

    I purchased a solar powered fan on line, installed it atop a 4" wye, and installed that on top of the house main vent. The presence of odors has dropped significantly, and even when they can be detected, it is so weak that it does not cause crows feet at the proboscus interface to your face.

    These sewer gases can be extremely corrosive, so one must be careful in their selection of fan components. I will leave this one up and running for at least a year before I start introducing them to the market, but it does appear to be a good above ground solution to septic poo-lution.

    Whaddya think Wallies?

    BTW, I've already started the patent process :-)

    ME
  • Ron Schroeder
    Ron Schroeder Member Posts: 998


    Hi Dave,

    From personal experience, my own septic system (cesspool without septic tank) still has no house trap but does have a F.A.I. It doesn't smell except very slightly right by the F.A.I. on hot, no wind days with the A/C on and there is a down draft thru the main roof vent.
  • jp_2
    jp_2 Member Posts: 1,935
    anerobic=stink

    if you got plenty on O2 you greatly reduce the stink, my composting toilet produces no sewer smell, if used correctly.

    but all the fluid in the tank might prevent perfect aerobic action.
  • jackchips_2
    jackchips_2 Member Posts: 1,338
    Excellent discussion

    and I hope Mike has been able to read enough to solve his problem.

    This topic also brought back memories of removing the internal house traps installed in the many homes built by the Whitin Family for the workers in their textile plants. One of the posts by GrandPah reminded me that all the traps had clean outs on the inlet side and a vent on the outlet that was extended through the outside foundation wall and capped with a screen. They were all on a municipal sewer system and I don't recall one of them having an odor.

    That is how you knew if the blockage was beyond the trap though, by the waste flowing to the exterior from the vent. A blockage with a dry vent meant YUCK.

    Great trade this plumbing and learning all the time.

    Jack
  • singh
    singh Member Posts: 866
    I know

    I am just playing devil's advocate here.
    If you have one house trap, why the other traps??

    BTW my own system , 7 years and I have not had it pumped yet. It may be more, since the previous owners had this place for 9 years, and did not even know they had a septic tank, oh boy, city slickers!

    And if you're out in the yard a get an occasional stink, SO WHAT! it's a stink pipe, that's what it is supposed to do, let out stink. I'm curious, if I pour in a bottle of channel no. 5 would the vent pipe smell as sweet. : )

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  • mp1969
    mp1969 Member Posts: 226
    Call A professional

    Mike,

    I don't want to sound callous here but if you can afford a 6000 sq.ft. home why not call a reliable plumbing firm or septic installer and have them check this out?

    Sewer gas is not only a health concern but a potential explosion waiting to happen. Do yourself and your family a favor and get this checked out! ASAP

    MP 1969
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