Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit

Like some opinions, please (Dan H.)

Bud_14 Member Posts: 200
(I meant private – for contractors only)

I can’t remember much of it, but it did have a place for manufacturers / contractors / can’t remember if it had a members area or not, it offered tools such as the ability to manage your own website (for a fee) at supplyspot…the layout and navigation was professionally done from what I can remember…it’s been gone sometime and I’m drawing a blank on the whole site in general…

I’m all for putting together a site to promote controls and control wiring for the industry, I have a (at this time - non productive) place for this at, but have been so tied up with my sheet metal site, that if anyone else were to run with something, I’d be there to learn and pass on the little bit I may know…I’m not for redundancy in websites and am fine with the site I host for the sheet metal sector of our industry, however, I think a similar site for controls and wiring, trouble shooting, etc, would help the industry if moderated properly…I would support any venture that leans this way and stays focused in helping and passing on the skills…



  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,433
    We have this On the Job section of the site,

    which I started some time ago at Hot Rod's suggestion. Trouble is hardly anyone uses it, so that tells me at this point that it's something you don't want or need. It's also wasted real estate on the site.

    I was thinking about converting it to a WORD OF MOUTH section where consumers could post their experiences with contractors. Most of you talk about the importance of word-of-mouth advertising, so what do you think. Good? Scary?

    Retired and loving it.
  • ed wallace
    ed wallace Member Posts: 1,613

    I am all for it
  • Heatermon
    Heatermon Member Posts: 119
    I vote scary

    For two reasons:

    1. It could get out of hand if anybody could say anything about anyone (good or bad) and hide their identity so we wouldn't know their true motives for the endorsement. I got plenty of "friends" who will tell you anything I want you know about how great our business is.

    2. I thought that was what "Find A Contractor" was supposed to be for. Not that I would care, but some people who pay you for the advertising might be offended if somebody else was getting the "spotlight" for free.

    Maybe a good funny story telling section would be a little less "controversial".

    Sorry to be the wet blanket, but that's how I see it.


    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Bill_34
    Bill_34 Member Posts: 3
    Very True!!

    Very True and I agree. I think Hot Rod had a good idea and you need to find a way to allow others to be more aware of the "ON THE JOB" option. How? I have no idea...but I'm sure someone can figure it out.

    I like what you got....
  • Bill_34
    Bill_34 Member Posts: 3

    Any guesses on what would happen if the conversation got started about the wonderful experiences a customer enjoyed with flat rate pricing???
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,433
    I did find a way, Bill.

    I put it up there for free, and thousands of people visit this site every day. Pros just aren't using it, which makes me think that it's not useful, or wanted. Which is why I'm considering changing it to something else.
    Retired and loving it.
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,433
    Every post

    would clear though me, Jeff.
    Retired and loving it.
  • S Ebels
    S Ebels Member Posts: 2,322
    Quite frankly

    I never took the time to look at it Dan. Never realized what exactly it was for.

    I know, I know...... You've said it a hundred times if you've said it once. "It pays to wander off the Wall".

    I'll keep this section in mind if I have something I feel is worthy of report.

    Thanks again, for all you do, sir.
  • Jim_47
    Jim_47 Member Posts: 244

    If thinking of adding or changing an item,
    I'd like to see a spot where I could post stuff I'd like to obtain or swap or sell.
    not sure how it would be formatted.... But I would really like to move some "NEW but OLD" stock. Like somehow I ended up with a gazillion do hinkuses and I'd like to sell trade or barter, offline with some one that needs them.
    Just a thought
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,433
    You can use

    the Community Bulletin Board for that. It's right here on the Wall.
    Retired and loving it.
  • dconnors
    dconnors Member Posts: 215
    could be good, could be bad....

    Uncensored comments? hmmmmmm. I would like to know the thoughts and comments of homeowners on installs and service. It helps us to better our service to the contractors.
  • Matt Clina
    Matt Clina Member Posts: 90
    For what it's worth

    I know that it was changed because hardly anybody used it, but I really liked this section the way it used to be, when people used to write funny or inspirational stories that happened "On the Job". I know that there were very few stories actually posted there, but I still remember some of the ones that were.

    My favorite involved a guy working in a dark boiler room and an old lady peeing in his tool bucket.

    But that's just me.
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,433
    That's the thing

    there were very few stories posted there. The intent was to use that space to encourage young people to enter the trades. Few seemed to be interested in that so I took it down.

    On the Job, as it is now, is there because Hot Rod posted on the Wall that this is what needed, a place to review products and systems. More than a year later we have just eight submissions, and none from H.R., by the way ;-)

    If you folks aren't going to use it that's okay, but it is wasted space, for which we pay, and something more productive should go there.
    Retired and loving it.
  • Ken_8
    Ken_8 Member Posts: 1,640

    The Wall is it. It always was. It always will be. I barely have time to read the most vital resource available in written form thereon. I need yet another source of input like I need a hundred lottery tickets. Whose going to see if any are winners?

    Time is my most precious posession.

    I am willing to share it on The Wall and The Wall only. Not blogs. Not roundtable discussions. Not get rich quick seminars and newsletters. Not any of the crap that begs and toys with my most cherished posession. I have made the choice with very careful consideration.

    Its The Wall.


    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • jerry scharf_3
    jerry scharf_3 Member Posts: 419
    further questions


    This seems like an interesting idea. With the right guidance at the outset, it could easily develop a life of it's own with it's own following. Here are my comments

    Is this a wide open thing, or is someone going to moderate it? If it's wide open, it could get ugly. If it's moderated, then it would be nice to set some guidelines for what is expected and how posts will be filtered.

    With moderation, especially if you do it, and some clear guidelines, it could be a very interesting section. In selection, look for ones that highlight areas that have common threads. Some that looks at the travails of finding the right contractor. Some that show the good and bad of repipe jobs, especially the ones that go from bad to good...

    Specific thoughts:

    These will tend to be longer than a couple paragraphs so no more than 1-2 a day (not that it's been a problem.) Discussion of the jobs should move back to the wall. Ideally you would have a way to link from the post to the wall discussion and back, but I'm not sure what's possible.

  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,433
    They would all come to me first

    as e-mail, as they do now. I'd make the decision.

    Thanks for the input.
    Retired and loving it.
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,433
    Then this

    wouldn't affect you at all, Ken. Thanks.
    Retired and loving it.
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,433

    they would come through me first.
    Retired and loving it.
  • Ken_8
    Ken_8 Member Posts: 1,640
    That presumes I

    am a lone voice.

    If by chance I am not; then it effects you much more than I lad...

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,433
    What I mean

    is that if it's there and you're not reading it then there will be no awareness of it, and that's a fine choice. If a tree falls in the forest and all that.

    Carry on in bliss, laddie!
    Retired and loving it.
  • dconnors
    dconnors Member Posts: 215
    guess it would come down to what you perceive as important

    Many questions in this industry go unanswered only because no one asks.
  • Dale
    Dale Member Posts: 1,317
    I like the idea

    I have a feeling most of us don't really know what really concerns most customers. And, if the objective is to grow the wet side of heating the more we know the better. I would suggest some sort of outline to generate responses rather just free flow. Something like " What did you expect, what did you feel you got, was it worth it, what problems did you have, did you like the guy who did the work, did you feel it was worth what you spent? Stuff like that, after a while the responses will be like a focus group. Perhaps some of the responders would be willing to be in a professionally lead focus group to fine tune things. Oh well just stuff off the top of my head, like my hair.
    I too liked the old part of the site where guys told of how they came up in the trade, but as an education (and income/business growth) site I guess it wasn't a priority fit.
  • lchmb
    lchmb Member Posts: 2,997

    I am one of those guilty of not knowing it was there..:( me bad. With that said, I can agree that with someone monitoring the posting's it could prove interesting. But I think it would again end up wasted space. Most people come to the wall to post good and bad stories. How about a spot where contractor's or tech's (registered only) could meet to voice opinion's of equipment and jobs without the general public being able to look over the shoulder? Just a thought...
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,433
    I suggested that last year.

    It was Luke-warm response.
    Retired and loving it.
  • steve_90
    steve_90 Member Posts: 1
    I rarely visit the On the Job section, but

    I think that one reason I might not visit it is that the title doesn't tell me what is there. If it is a section for product reviews, then maybe titling it product reviews would draw attention there.

    Once at the section, there has to be enough content to make the visit worthwhile. Right now there isn't enough there to encourage repeat visits. Partly this is a chicken and egg problem: if you don't have the content people won't go there more than once, and you won't get the content if people don't first find that the the section has enough useful material for repeat visits.

    Generating content might be easy for a professional writer, but for the rest of us it's not that easy; it's much more of a chore to write a formal review than to contribute comments to a discussion. Perhaps if the section had discussion subsections for equipment categories it would attract more visits. Then again, The Wall is an excellent forum for that type of discussion. The only problem with The Wall is that it is a little hard to find specific information about a particular product without having to go through a lot of off-target material.
  • Time to move on.

    That section reminds me of my stationary bicycle. Sold it at a yard sale. Made enough for 2/3 case of Weissbier. Used my managerial experience to only drink 1 bottle at a time. And. Now I don't sit in my Lazy Boy & wonder why I bought the darn thing.
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 2,284

    ...was and still is a good and useful idea. A number of situations have presented themselves on "The Wall" that needed a community to be adequately discussed. I'd like to see it back on the table.

    Yours, Larry
    ps. Yes, I know... a wee bit off topic.
  • Jed_2
    Jed_2 Member Posts: 781
    Silly thought

    Hi, Dan

    I just had a silly thought. What about a "Wetstock On The Wall"? As I understand the format, as I have not the time or where-with-all to attend one, and they are time-intervalled, and they have "subject/topic tables"; couldn't that format be applied to this forum? Take your pick, guys, and have at it.

  • hr
    hr Member Posts: 6,106
    I like the idea of involving

    homeowners more. Lot more homeowners than contractors out there, to visit here :) Homeowners visiting here are the contractors best "up to bat" as well as a stream of income to keep active and growing.

    Somehow it sounds like it would turn into a homeowner complaint area, possibly internet system owners :) With the contractors trying to smooth thing over for them?

    I think we need more ideas to get, and keep, homeowners coming to the site. Especially now with heating season over! seems to slow down a bit in the summer months. Maybe they all migrate to :)

    Maybe an area that would speak more to homeowners that are shopping or considering various heating options? Along the lines of the virtual shopping you can do at real estate websites where you can do a walk through a from your computer. A hydronic shopping area of sorts?

    Sorry the other idea didn't pan out so well. Hard to find enough hour to get to all the various areas here!

    hot rod

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,433
    Not silly,

    just not accepted by the community. We used to have a Round Table room here on the Wall. Hardly anyone used it so we got rid of it.
    Retired and loving it.
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 3,471

    Maybe its just me and my personality, but all that I do when I come on to the site is go to The Wall. Maybe it is a lEAD BALLOON - THAT Section. That being said....The customer-complaint (yeah, because that is what it would become) section would be about as entertaining as watching UFC fights!!!!!!! I.E., I love!!!!!! seeing people go at many forums...however, I am often told that it is destructive, demoralizing and sick to watch people "destroy" each other....The Roman Coliseums???? As much as I would love to see that idea come to fruition, Dan, I am predicting, that it will become a blood-bathing donnybrook...the likes of which the Wall has not yet seen! I've got nothing to hide, so, whatever will be will be. Mad Dog

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 2,284
    I'm looking at...

    ...Dan's original idea again. It was a Word of Mouth section where homeowners could give feedback about what they are qualified like nobody else to give... their perceptions on dealing with contractors. Seems many people "lurk" here quietly, perhaps not feeling qualified to comment about the technical voodo we play with. Constantin often begins with "I'm only a homeowner...".

    Making it easier for more folks to become involved here would help all concerned. The contractors who spend time here are at the top of the game and have nothing to worry about with critical comments. This would provide another opportunity to be useful to others. I see little to lose and much to gain. As Dan has said repeatedly, he will take charge of the content. He won't likely allow a bloodbath in his living room.. ;~)

    Yours, Larry
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 15,433

    You assume the worst, Matt. Why?
    Retired and loving it.
  • all for it as well

    I feel a place for HO's to be able to input is of great value to one and all . Not just for advice but the concerns and issues of our consumers that affect us all .

    Don't we want input to be able to better ourselves and our communication with the consumers that support us ?

    I think knowing what we can all do better is vital to our industry and elevating quality service and knowledge is of great importance to me for one !
    He who knows WHY

    Shall be master of

    He who knows HOW
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 3,471
    I always assume the worst...hope for the best

    Just my cynical nature I guess. I believe that in assuming the worst, initially, I work out all scenarios and possibilities that may occur - thinking through all my thoughts and actions. Then, turn to the positive and think that through. After "laying" it all out in my head, I then make an informed and reality-based decision. Its got me this far in life. As I said in the previous post, I personally would get a big kick out of it, and would welcome any and all opinions on my work and way of doing business and others.
    However, I have seen enough powder-keg issues and very heated debates here between homeowners and contractors. I have seen quite a few instances where disgruntled hos "go after" some "Find a Professional" contractors, and vice-versa. I'm sure they were justifications on both sides and in many of the cases, I think I would side with the homeownwers. I think "clearing" the air at The Wall is one thing, but dedicating an area for it could become very contentious and nasty. If the area in question, were only to contain positive experiences and the like, then how "real" is it? I like things the way they are, but I am always willing to try new things. That's My opinion, Mad Dog

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
  • TGO_54
    TGO_54 Member Posts: 327
    On The Job

    Hi Dan,
    Like many others who have posted here, I sometimes just forget that On The Job is there. The idea is a good one - maybe it just needs a little more publicity.

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
  • Boiler Guy
    Boiler Guy Member Posts: 585
    What about

    spinning the thought process a little. Mix up the serious with a small modicom of humour. I am not sure how to explain this point... but something along the line of; Interesting thing happened when 1/we installed the new XYZ boiler today..... Lead line grabs attention while the explanation enables readers to learn. Just a thought!

    I have read all the posts there but it appears I am in the minority. I agree it is not currently a good use of resources, Dan.
  • John Shea
    John Shea Member Posts: 247
    no harm done.

    I once worked for a computer hardware reseller as a sales manager. One of our biggest sources of income included traffic from a website called Bizrate (many of you have probably heard of them).

    To make a long story short, Bizrate would accept praise and/or complaints about purchasing experiences from different resellers. If a complaint was posted, Bizrate allowed for a "rebuttle" from the reseller. If the claim was found to be 'extreme' and/or fraudulent, Bizrate would remove the post altogether. It worked out better than I thought it would.

    If Dan is moderating, I don't see how it could get out of control. 9 times out of 10 if your doing wrong it will be discovered one way or the other and you will ultimately (and deservedly) pay the price.

    I think that the kind of professionals found on the Wall need not worry about bad publicity. Your work habits and business practice tends to speak for itself. Fraudulent attacks, I believe are easily spotted.

    However, I hope for your sake, Dan that you don't become a mediator of sorts.

    On another note, one gentlemen mentioned trying to get rid of some of his new/old stock. I envision an 'ebay type' auction that would allow members to buy/sell old and new equipment. Heck, Dan maybe you could earn some cash on commissions!! There are several good (and free) auction scripts out there. Although, the work to install and maintain such a program might be too much to handle.

    Just my two-cents.
  • Michal
    Michal Member Posts: 213
    Ideas I am serious about

    Well as I posted a question a while ago on help pricing jobs and myself working under some one elses license (hich opened up a can of worms), this might get interesting, since I get alot of work through word of mouth. Dan I am a young guy in the field and engineering. I would be willing to work with you on getting Younger people involved in your site and our industry, I am in Westchester and there is Saunders Trade and Technical High School (my high school) and Boces, here and a few others. I would like to get in touch with you and maybe we can set up a plan to get the word out. This is a great site that I think alot of Younger people in the field are un aware of. Lets talk
  • Dan , would this me limited to heating contractors ?

    I'm always looking for good construction , electrical , plumbing , concrete , you name it - contractors . The experience and opinions of fellow Wallies with other trades go a long way in my book . Either way , I think it's a great idea .
This discussion has been closed.