The new Prejudice Part 2

tom_49

John,

I think you should try. You have brought up many good points about actual real life "knowledge". Someone should listen. I wish you luck.

I'll keep my eye out for more of your posts on the project youre working on w/ the RPA. Thats really interesting.

Good luck.

Tom

jerry scharf_3

being an engineer vs. having a stamp

John,

There is "the stamp." This is a thing a licensed engineer gets to put on drawings he/she generates to say that they/their insurance will stand behind should there be a failure. Having the stamp on the drawing is very often required by jurisdictional bodies for the plans to be accepted. Same goes for a licensed architect.

An engineer is a whole different animal. It is someone capable of undestanding the trade-offs that go into a particular type of system and making those trade-offs well. I have met people with appropriate degrees who weren't engineers. I have met people without degrees who fully qualified as engineers. I will say that on the whole, people who do have degrees are more likely to qualify, but my guess is that it's more self selection than the training.

The stamp is something you either have to get or get over. IMO, there's nothing useful whatsoever in thinking any more about it. It's a hoop that you either jump through or don't. If you don't jomp the hoop, you don't get the do the things that people who jump the hoop get to do by law. It has almost nothing to do with ability, good or bad.

As for an engineer, I seem to remember that Thomas Edison didn't get a degree. But if you look through the records, there is a methodical approach to making things work that any engineer would recognize and be proud of. He also hired a number of degreed people as well as non-degreed to work with him. I'm prety sure everyone had to learn morse code.

Now me, I was trained as a scientist and not an engineer. I tend to have a slightly different cut at things, and don't think of myself as an engineer even when I'm doing engineering work. There's always another process going on. Philosophers and religious people think about why things happen. Scientests think about what happens. Engineers think about how to make it happen. Each have their educational processes and their measure of progress.

jerry

Larry Weingarten

John, Jerry has given you...

...a valuable key. Join forces. Team up with an engineer who does have a stamp. Teach him/her about your designs and have him/her go over your work (and you over theirs) until you are both happy with the result. In the end your designs will be stamped and built and you and your engineer will both learn things. This is just what I did in designing my house. We challenged a lot of conventional thinking and it is producing a VERY efficient house! It was a good and productive partnership.

Yours, Larry

Weezbo

I \"Get it\"

John, in all endeavours of human aspiration there tends to be "special Language". The average MITS uses maybe 5-700 words buh take a not so average man in the street ,he may use 1200 or so,give that same guy a vocabulary of 2000 words and the SOB is a "Specialist"

i have no qualms with Actions speak louder than Words or ""Deeds not Words"(my old school motto) thing is while there are a group of subtle actions that aren't interpreted by another correctly doesn't mean that they are idiots.

You don't need validation by anyone else as to your worth in what you do,you are fine the way you are, what you choose to call yourself is up to you. Agreement is a thing that tends to validate ones personal view of Self though, when attempting to discuss subjects that have special languages. ask any doctor...None of them were a doctor by birth.The ability to read though ,i assure you, was a definite plus in their development of the language they use today

Can you "Read Me"? maybe....were you to work with me you might find i am saying things when the work comes together and may have never spoken a word. being able to read that is no less an ability than picking up a book ...it just has its own "Special Language".

How does one quantify just how smart someone is in that realm? can a college professor infer some title upon you to delineate that? By the same token,taking a dig at them for their life's endeavours just because it may be a different Kind of smarts is a rather lopsided view of things.

Perhaps, i have been over enculturated ,living here and no longer speak the Queens English ,however, to me socialization is part of civilization.even anti social behaviour is met with a certain degree of tolerance in this culture,however,in many circles there exists no prevalent need to mesh oneself in sub cultures that are deliberately anti social....You can call yourself any thing you bleddy well please around me*~/:) buh i would likely not judge a book by its cover.....i say things differently *~/:)



special languages are used to enlighten or clarify a subject buh they can also be used to elude to an exclusion...

Think about it.....You have Time. i hope this helps