Single Pipe Steam

dean_14

I too am a homeowner with single pipe steam. First listen to steamhead and do what he tells you. Second get Dan's books "We Got Steam Heat" and "The Lost Art of Steam heating". The latter is more technical but explains the hows and whys in much greater detail. My system USED to run like yours. It got fixed 21/2 years ago with help form these books and this site. It now runs like it was originally designed to.

Kim

Single Pipe Steam

We have an 1892 single pipe steam system in a three story Queen Anne Victorian. Furnace/Boiler is newer fueled by natural gas. Thermostat is on the main floor. Furnace comes on/goes off. Radiators on 2cnd/3rd floors never get hot (unless it's below zero outside and furnace comes on and stays on, then they get hot). Vents and radiator pitch are good. Furnace appropriately sized for heat load. What can we do?

Steamhead (in transit)

Things to check

1. Are the steam pipes insulated?

2. Are the main vents sized properly? Measure the length and diameter of each main and tell us what vent is on it.

3. If the above are correct, you may need to use bigger vents on the upper radiators. Adjustable vents are real handy here. TRVs (vents that respond to room temperature) are also nice if a bit pricey. With rising fuel costs they get much more attractive.

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tom_64

Steam heat dirty water

My boiler's water for my single pipe steam system is always dirty. I blew down the boiler everyday for a week and it stays dirty. I almost drained it the other day, removing the glass tube and letting the dirty water run and run till it was clear. Yesterday I tried blowing it down while it was running and brown water just poured out. What should I do? Are my radiators that dirty and risers full of oxidized material??
Please help.

Anthony Menafro

Stat

Hey kfelmer, how long is your boiler running before it shuts off and what is the pressure? If it is running too short a period of time, it could be short cycling. If it is running uo to pressure and shutting down, then equalization of your system is necessary.

Anthony Menafro

Kim

Single Pipe Steam

1. Most of the steam pipes in the basement have old asbestos insulation still intact. Sections of them are not insulated. There are four vertical risers on the main floor and one on the second floor and they are not insulated. We have a total of 19 radiators over 3 floors some with bell shaped vents and some with vents that look like the Empire State Bldg. The radiator vents are all the same size regardless of radiator size (and we have all sizes). I see what I think are 4 mains from the boiler piping. Two of them snake around next to each other to vertical pipes that have a vent at the very top. The vents say No.33 Dole Vents, Chicago. When the furnace comes on I can hear those vents hissing and popping. One of these pipes starts as 4" then goes to 3.5" then 2" before the vents. The second pipe starts as 3.5" and then goes to 2" before the vent. There are two mains with vertical pipes in the furnace room with vents on the top but they appear to be hooked to an old disconnected fuel oil line and I don't think they get warm. There are numerous branches off all these larger pipes. The boiler is new in 2000 (450K BTU)fired by natural gas. The water in the boiler glass is reddish colored. With the thermostat set on 58F that is what the main floor stays at, colder as you go up. Last winter, with the thermostat at 68F we had a lot of banging and knocking, especially on the second floor but not this year.
Bottom line is the radiators are heating unevenly and partially. The furnace doesn't run very long with the thermostat so low but with 5000 square feet and natural gas so high it's costing $700 a month for the 58F and this is a mild winter so far. I have closed off two rooms and turned the radiator valves completely off.
Thanks for your help.
Thanks.

Matt_37

Kim, I am a homeowner also so let me throw a few things out there from that perspective. You've come to the right place!

1 - What city are you in? With that much of a system that sounds like it needs a little help, it would be good to get a true pro in to take a look. Hopefully you are near one of the guys on this site. They can start at the boiler for common/service issues and then go through the mains and out to the radiators. Also go ahead and get (at a minimum) the homeowner-oriented book by Dan from this website about steam systems - it's great and will allow you to know what's going on.

2 - One item will be to insulate the mains where the asbestos has fallen off. Please take precaution around the remaining asbestos. If uncomfortable with that - get somebody who can do that task.

3 - Look at replacing the main vents with properly sized ones. If you hear any of the main or radiator vents hissing, somethings wrong. The pro can help with that.

4 - Look at replacing the radiator vents also. Sounds like you have some old ones on there. Pro can also recommend appropriate vents there also.

5 - The pro can also take a look at what might be causing the low-level water hammer. Sounds like something might need to be sloped properly, etc. This might change some also when the system is vented.

This will be a marginal $$ investment, but it is sooooo nice to have good heat and once the system is properly vented, you will save much on gas. It's hard on the system to have it 'corked' like that, so it's either fix it and start working on getting the return savings, or keep paying the gas company and beating up the system at the same time...

Matt

Steamhead (in transit)

Dole main cents

are almost always too small. We have your steam pipe diameters already, how long are the mains? How about some pics of some radiators and the boiler area, including those old lines with vents that don't get hot?

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Long Beach Ed

Venting

Kim, those Vents are probably 80 years old and need to be replace with properly sized ones, as Ed says. This is your problem. If the boiler is sized and piped properly, your heat can be fixed by replacing the vents. Get an experienced steam guy to determine what you need.

Long Beach Ed

Kim

Single Pipe Steam

We are in Duluth, MN. I've talked with some local heating/plumbing contractors and they 1) Want to sell a new system, 2)don't know what they're talking about i.e. push the pressure up, partially close radiator valves to balance heat, dirty boiler water okay, etc. I used the locator with our zip code (55803) and no one within 100 miles. I've gone and listened to all the radiator vents and they all vent air with a quiet hiss, except one that sputters a little bit. None of them ever get warm all the way across unless it's very cold and the furnace comes on and stays on.

TommyBoy

Dirty Steam water

I have a steam system that no matter how I flush, skim or anything else the water is always dirty - this has been going on for years.  I had taken some of the water and let it sit and the rust/iron in the water will not settle and was hoping to take a pH reading. Tried Squick and everything else off the shelf and nothing works. One old timer told me to use Mex (which is a cleaner of walls etc,) and run the boiler to produce steam and then flush the system out.

ALSO, I put some of the steam boiler water in a container and the iron WILL NOT settle to the bottom!!!!!!

Jamie Hall

am I confused?

Tom and Tommy Boy seem to be talking about dirty water -- specifically rusty.  Well... that's life.  In fact, the more you flush, likely the worse it's going to get.  Some of the rust comes from the inside of the pipes.  Some from the radiators.  However, in general these are pretty hefty iron sections, and it will take a long time for them to do anything evil, like rust out.  What happens is as the steam condenses, air comes back in (something has to!) and the oxygen in air, plus the moisture left on the pipes and all, equals rust.  Can't help it.



So not to worry.  However, too frequent flushing of the system can make things worse (ask five experts and get six opinions as to how often is too often), as the new water is somewhat more corrosive than the old.  What you do want to do is to get actual sludge out of the LWCO(s) so they don't hang up.  In my opinion, if the water you are flushing isn't sludgy (although it may be quite red and rusty), you're done.



Also, the water in the gauge class should be pretty clear, even when the system is running.  If not, you may have other problems...

nicholas bonham-carter

squick no substitute for maintainance!

just how dirty is your water, anyway?

first of all, i think the way squick works [or does not work], is to hold all the water-bourne solids in suspension, so until you get it all out with a good "skimming", and "blowing down", your water will never be clean [in the no oil on the waterline surface way].

a little rust in the water, as jaimie says, is acceptable. no manufacturer has ever recommended any chemicals on a regular basis, other than maybe washing soda, for the initial cleaning, before skimming.  you could try a long "knife-holder" magnet on the horizontal wet return to trap some of the rust particles, and take it off when you flush the wet returns.--nbc