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HB SMITH w/ Carlin Reset problem

Scott Kneeland
Scott Kneeland Member Posts: 158
in THE MAIN WALL
I HAVE 2 CUSTOMERS WITH THE SAME PROBLEM. HB SMITH FD12 3 SECTION WITH A CARLIN 100 CRD. PROBLEM IS THEY RUN 5 TO 15 DAYS AND GO OFF ON RESET. THE UNIT DID NOT LIGHT WHEN RESET SMOKE ECT. NOZZLES ARE TO SPEC .75-60AR MONARCH AIR AND HEAD ARE CORRECT BOTH HAVE NEW IGNITORS AND ELECTRODES, EFFICIENCE TEST WELL 10.8 CO2, NO SMOKE,-.05 BREECH DRAFT, -.02 OVER FIRE. ANY IDEAS?

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Comments

  • Wild Bill
    Wild Bill Member Posts: 111
    FD12

    Replace the boilers before they either soot up the house or leak, they are the worst pieces of crap on the North American Continent!!!!!!!!!!!
    Wild Bill (Ex Smith employee)
  • Firedragon_4
    Firedragon_4 Member Posts: 1,434
    Don't agree, and

    if they're still there that blows the bad boiler theory.

    Call Carlin, it's a burner problem.

    If the boiler isn't leaking it's doing its job.
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 3,212
    Things to check

    I,ve had a couple like that this winter hears a few things i usually chk check vacume on your oil lines and see how many inches your pulling and check it while if there are any other oil appilances running also pump seal and coupler and check for a dead spot on your burner motor .What type of cad cell relay are you using carlin ,honeywell ,pre and post relay .Also check your odv and fuel supply at the jet line your pump could be cavatating from restriction after it's been running a while had that this winter .I usually on a return service call will check the lines blow them back then hnd pump till you get clean oil .Check all your safeties and incoming voltage .I had one day tank job giving me headaches ended up wiring a digital clck to the pump circuit end up being a 100 year old knife switch that every coulpe of days would clicxk off setting everything off on reset replacesd the knife switch and that was it .I would really check that burner motor had a few on carlins do it to me this winter good luck peace clammy

    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating

  • eleft_4
    eleft_4 Member Posts: 509
    Scott Check against this.

    I don't know if you have this and I hope it helps.

    Wild Bill,
    I wonder why you are an X employee?
  • Scott Kneeland
    Scott Kneeland Member Posts: 158


    MORE INFO: I KNOW A FD12 IS NOT THE GREATEST HOWEVER MY AREA IS STILL FULL OF THEM AND THESE TWO UNITS ARE IN SUPRISINGLY GOOD CONDITION. I HAVE 0" OF VACUUM AND NO OTHHER OIL UNIT IN THE BASEMENT. IT IS AN IGNITION PROBLEM DUE TO THE SMOKE WHEN CUSTOMER HAS RESET IT.

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  • Scott Kneeland
    Scott Kneeland Member Posts: 158


    THANKS ELEFT, I DO HAVE IT EVEN THE SHEET THAT CAME WITH ONE OF THE BOILERS. IT SEEMS YOU ALWAYS GET A COUPLE OF THIS TYPE OF PROBLEM EVERY WINTER BUT PLEASE NOT 2 AT ONCE.

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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 153
    Some of the boys

    over on OilTechTalk have been complaining about ignitor problems. Most also agree that the available testers don't tell the whole story. The "Constant Duty" rating on the ignitors is also questionable. Might want to try a new ignitor w/ an interrupted relay.

  • eleft_4
    eleft_4 Member Posts: 509
    Fan wheel size

    Did you measure the fan wheel, do you have 60020 (Blue) or the 8184G burner control?

    al
  • Scott Kneeland
    Scott Kneeland Member Posts: 158


    eleft' i have a 8182d control the really strange thing is i have serviced both accounts for several years, only ever had problems if a 75-60 ar was NOT used?

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  • Firedragon_4
    Firedragon_4 Member Posts: 1,434
    Another thing, although it's not that

    cold out now set the electrodes with the red CCT gauge and then make them just a hair wider, it helps, a lot.

    I'll make a call tomorrow, but I just also had a client tell me he has these workhorses (100CRD's) purring away using a Danfoss nozzle, but it's not what you'd expect. I'll try tomorrow.
  • Scott Kneeland
    Scott Kneeland Member Posts: 158


    Thanks Firedragon, I have 100's of the 100crd's in all types of equipment that run non stop. but these two are really testing me. I know everyone says FD12 --throw it out but thats easier said than done try to get a customer to replace a boiler because you can't make it run.

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  • eleft_4
    eleft_4 Member Posts: 509
    Cad cell connections

    Check the cad cell connections & the motor/ign relay contacts in the control????

    Is it tight on the well (no grounding screw).

    al

  • Al Gregory
    Al Gregory Member Posts: 259


    I installed many of those when I didnt know any better. They are the main reason I dont want to use the new HB Smith boilers. Try down fireing to a .65 60 W delevan and increase the pump presure. Also they used to come with a Webster pump. If that was the case I would change that out to a suntec. Those old websters never worked well for me. No strainer so no one ever cleaned them. Also check the slide adjustment on the side. It used to help to set it to 3 or third mark, then you could close the air gate a little more making ignition smother.
  • Bill Nye_2
    Bill Nye_2 Member Posts: 538
    Scott

    Sent you an e-mail. By the way, the cap lock key is the 3rd one up on the left. Us old geezers have a hard time seeing at night.
  • Tom M.
    Tom M. Member Posts: 237
    Could be too much draft.

    If memory serves me correctly, the FD-12 is a forced draft boiler. There should be pressure over the fire. The ones that I've seen also had a centrifugal clutch on the drive coupling so that the motor could come up to speed against the draft then get the pump started. Unfortunately, I don't remember the exact setup and the Carlin setup tables don't have the the draft and CO2 numbers. Hope this helps.
  • Firedragon_4
    Firedragon_4 Member Posts: 1,434
    That's nasty

    Al considering that we killed them by not pushing the gasket seals back up when we cleaned them, did it myself.

    The Smith 8 is nothing like the FD12, it doesn't take a person who reads the directions anymore (myself included). Now they factored in for the smart@*+ factor.

    I hope you have customers who forgive you when you make a mistake, thank God, I do and I make them by the truckload.

    See ya ;-)
  • Al Gregory
    Al Gregory Member Posts: 259


    Another thing that dosnt impress me about the HB Smith is the recovery rate. Its a slow boiler and if there is a tankless coil we get alot of not enough hot water complaints. I know the 8 is better than the 12 but still much better boilers out there for the same money ;)
  • Firedragon_4
    Firedragon_4 Member Posts: 1,434
    We're all entitled to

    our opinions!
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 17,277


    I could be and probably am wrong but I remember someone telling me that the 12 and the 8 are virtually the same boiler (same sections) except one has a blue jacket and one is red and something with the gaskets. Any truth to this??
  • big bob
    big bob Member Posts: 6
    possible answer

    i was always taught that if there is more than a 2 degree difference in draft over fire and in the breech that you have one of two things.a plugged up or clogged unit or a leak in the unit.just trying to give some ideas.i have been to allot of training and that rule has not failed me in the field yet.always been one or the other.hope it helps out a little.
  • meatball
    meatball Member Posts: 5
    FD is NOT a Series 8

    Totally revamped boiler. Nothing the same except the Smith name minus the HB. Series 8 is a great little boiler with very good recovery rates.
  • The Kid
    The Kid Member Posts: 18
    Clean Fuel a must

    I have had the exact same problem years ago and this is what I did..Hope it helps....Three systems that i can remember..All had webster pumps with FB4 yarn style filter. Replaced to garber and to suntec pump.All settings as book suggest BUT THE ONLY DIFF IS THE NOZZLE USE A HAGO .75 60* Hollow and your problems will go away...I will never use a monarch nozzle in a carlin.....something that has worked well for me..
  • kevin coppinger_12
    kevin coppinger_12 Member Posts: 27
    Series 8....

    is a really good boiler...they really fixed the old problems...It's a Consumers Digest best buy. It runs very well and the numbers from it are very nice. I usually fire it with a Carlin EZ..kpc
  • Firedragon_4
    Firedragon_4 Member Posts: 1,434
    I think you meant

    .02" of wc draft, but we all must change.

    Many boilers today have pressure drops much higher than .02". In 1980 when we introduced the Pensotti R1 Series we had a lot education to do on this matter and it appears more is needed :-).

    Consider that the R1-6 has 6" of pressure drop brand new.

    Also, you're instructors are behind the times since I always used a least one example of a commercial boiler and if you look at the Burnham V9, the Peerless FD, the Smith 28 and the Weil 88 you will find pressure drops of up to 0.30" wc and no that's not a typo I didn't mean .03 I meant .30".
  • Firedragon_4
    Firedragon_4 Member Posts: 1,434
    That's several years

    as a Consumer's digest pick too!
  • Firedragon_4
    Firedragon_4 Member Posts: 1,434
    Agree on the filter,

    any pump works great with good filtration and low sulfur would make everything we have run better.

    Pleeeease Mr. Refinery guy and hat's off to Gov. Pataki of NY for leading the fight on this issue.
  • Firedragon_4
    Firedragon_4 Member Posts: 1,434
    Still trying to

    track down the guy who told me about the nozzle thing!
  • Alan_11
    Alan_11 Member Posts: 64
    Try a Beckett

    Had same type problems years ago with Weil Mclain 3 section boilers and carlin crd 100 burners. would run fine for a while,then set off smoke detectors or come on with a bang. Changed over to a Beckett and never had another problem. A 3 section boiler has a small combustion area and the beckett with an 80 degree nozzle seemed better suited.Try one with a used burner set up at the shop, and see which acts up ftrst.
  • NHPluminator
    NHPluminator Member Posts: 17


    ok first off...does it have a overhead oil line or is it on the floor..? overhead lines can be typical of a problem like he is having if there is a slight vaccume leak...new burners or not latly at work we have had a rash of bad pumpseals on new equipment..
  • freyheating265342
    freyheating265342 Member Posts: 14
    off on reset

    Scott, Did you check the motor. is it a PSC motor or an older style with a starter switch? Its possable that the starter switch is hanging up. Its also possable that the new electrode porcelains are bad... Carlin is a very good burner but not as forgiving as some others.
  • Rodney Summers
    Rodney Summers Member Posts: 748
    Smith FD12-4 out dated

    I have my FD12 for 25 years. The service I use was sold the new owner surprised me by immediately saying the boiler is out dated you need a new one. I asked why he just said 'out dated' DO you think this guy is trying to put one over on me?
  • Al Corelli
    Al Corelli Member Posts: 454


    Gotta love those Smith 8s. Never had a problem AT ALL with them.
  • kevin coppinger_4
    kevin coppinger_4 Member Posts: 2,124
    that would be.....

    a YES...kpc

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  • joe_14
    joe_14 Member Posts: 138
    try

    installing an on-watch it will monitor all burner funtions when it locks out on-watch stops recording analyize data will take you to problem. i have used on many triky ones like the on you have.

    good luck
    joe.g
  • Rodney Summers
    Rodney Summers Member Posts: 748
    Oil company

    Can anybody recommend a good oil and service company?
  • kevin coppinger_4
    kevin coppinger_4 Member Posts: 2,124
    Ken...

    where are you? kpc

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  • Rodney Summers
    Rodney Summers Member Posts: 748
    Oil Comapny

    Sorry, Hi I am in Nassau county long island new york
    Thanks,
    Ken
  • Rodney Summers
    Rodney Summers Member Posts: 748


    Hi...Could anybody answer where is a good oil company on Long Island New York? Thanks, Ken
  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,231
    Never seen this before?

    any time two three four burners have the same problem at the same time...i look for a Common cause.Electrical. Fuel. Draft. Make up air.
  • steve_93
    steve_93 Member Posts: 37


    As Ron has said, there has been some issues with the ignitor heating up and a solder on the board making and breaking.

    Try a new ignitor or/and see Alan at Oil Tech and purchase the On Watch from him, he's got a deal on it now.

    We have 2 and they're a god sent on imtermitent problems...

    Makes you a hero, especially when the competitions customers call you and you get the job done.

    It's worth the thousand bucks!!!
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