CONDENSING SIDE WALL VENT = ICE

Unknown

Built for Alaska

This is a new vent termination from Viessmann.

Any thoughts?

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Unknown

Built for Alaska

Here are newly designed vent terminations from Viessmann for their Vitodens 200 line.

Any thoughts?


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Confused_3

Not sure I understand the purpose

Is the purpose to avoid snow/ice buildup on the cage? Will the new termination increase velocity to avoid snow build-up?

Maybe I'm just slow.

Jon

Mike T., Swampeast MO

The elbow in the first (Vitodensventelbow24.pdf) looks for all the world like the inside piece of one of their standard 45° els.

Larry_10

i agree if he has that boiler for dhw in the summer with the window open it could be a small problem

Unknown

How it was explained to me;,,,

"The 45º termination directs the moist flue gas away from surfaces upon which it might otherwise freeze; i.e., the screen and nearby walls.  The volume of moist gas does not change as that is a function of efficiency and boiler input.  By dispelling it away from other things, it dissipates into the
dry, winter air."

I'm not getting it either. I'd have to see one in action to fully understand how this is going to help.

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joel_23

Hey guys!

i'm surprised your all so shocked by this. iguess it is because we are an HVAC vompany that we've delt with it more. Actually for about 15 years since we've been installing 90+ gas hot air jobbies.
Hot Rod , Noise is not a problem the Vitodens has the quietest direct vent I've ever seen
Gary , you are correct that install is OK for Mass. Still I would have tried to find another home for it.
The home inspector guy. You are wrong those people died because thier furnace was improperly serviced or modified . A blocked flue will shut down on any properly set up direct vent system.They could have just as easilly died from any improper chimney vent as well.
The new vent termination will help. You want to get the fumes as far from the house as possable. I hated the Vitodens vent first time I saw it. The fumes hit the end cone and difuse and travel upwards. This is exsaperated by the fact that the Vitodens doesn't blow real hard esp when on low fire the exhaust does not have the velocity (or noise) of a 90+. switching the end cone will improve things , how much I don't know but it's something pretty easy to try anyhow.

Unknown

Joel do you

know what the cause was. Did someone modify the system? Just curious as to how this could have happened.

I have (rarely) seen case that the sealed combustion chamber was not sealed and the direct vent had a hole in the exhaust portion and cross contaminated the intake air supply. It was making CO and was picked up by the warm air duct system. I have only ever seen this once.

Unknown

Mark I tried

using a water flush valve with a float one time. When the condensate built up it caused the water solenoid to open and dumped water in to mix with and dilute the condensate which was held in a plastic receiver I made up. It would then overflow and dump into the floor drain. It always seemed like a lot of work to me to just get rid of condensate.

Hey I remember the first time I went to a class on condensing equipment the instructor gathered the condensate in a glass and drank it. His point it is harmless. I wonder if he is still around.

A couple of years later Amans had a similar device on their HTM model that flushed the condensate line after every call for heat.

It is not unusaul up here in New England to find condensate lines plugged especially after sitting all summer. So part of fall tuneups is to flush the lines.

Another problem is the secondary heat exchangers getting plugged on warm air furnaces on the air side. That also should be checked annually.

I still like raising intake and exhaust above expected snow line (at least 3 feet). I have modified a few side wall vents without any problems on the operation.

I am finding by the way that most condensing equipment today is getting a lot quieter. With the ECM motors and variable speed applications it will surely improve.

Much thought needs to go into vent termination locations. The prevailing winds is another problem. Anything blowing at the termination in excess of 40 MPH will cause problems.

Some thought must also be given when an Indirest Water Heater is going to be running in the warm weather times with windows open.

joel boucher

Hi tim

No I do not know what happened. Ido know that I have tried to make 90+ units do this on several ocasions by plugging the flue or intake or both and they always shut down. Even if all the pressure switches failed , the flame would then roll out and shut off that way , either in the burner box or on the draft hood if this was a regualr hooded unit with aseperate power venter. I have seem power venters improperly wired that will allow the boiler to run even though the venter is not , Surprisingly i've seen them push the majority of the fumes out the hood anyhow. but If the hood was blocked you'd be done. I've gone out on several no haet calls before to find vents plugged with snow. some might be 10ft off the ground or more but when it snows sideways at 70MPH it packs right in. in all cases the call was for no heat because the unit was off on safety. to me the unit if oil must have been wired wrong or if gas was improperly serviced and stuff was bypassed. i've seen the scenario you describe on Heatmakers which results in them just shutting down from when they are trying to reburn thier own exhaust.

Rookie

Swirling winds

The spec calls for 3 foot of clearence to any corner, now the owner built this little lean to to cover his outside lawn furnature and off course the canoe, but do you think this would cause swirling flue gas to be sucked into the combustion air? How could you test for this situation?Note: The window to the right is screwed shut.

Rookie

Another view

Here is another look at the vent, what do you think this would cause flue gases to recirculate into the intact, what kind of test could you do to monitor this situation?

Rookie

Another view

Here is another look at the vent, is it possible for the fluegas recirculate into the intact,givin this new addition of the tarp, this is what I am being told, I don't agree that this is the problem but before I move on to the next step I would like to put the flue gas issue to bed. What kind of test could you do to monitor this situation?

jim sokolovic

Some of the symptoms...

of flue gas recirculation that I've observed are: Increased CO2 and CO, decreased NOx, decreased flame signal, rumbling flame, flame outage, resonating noises, moisture and corrosion in the air intake areas. I would assume different style burners would react differently, and I am not saying this is what the Munchkin does. The decreased flame signal was weird, considering that the CO2 was increasing - this may have been due to approaching the point before the flame began rumbling and extinguished itself. Hope this helps!

Unknown

What's the specific problem here?

Is that a Munchkin vent? To think, I thought the Vitodens termination was ugly! Although I'm quite sure your vent meets the code here, you will probably see the same frost thing we see posted above.

Looks like you're probably going to have "swirling winds" around there. Only way I can think of to tell if this could be a problem is to use your Bacharach Firerite Pro when the wind comes.

The flue gases definantly too close to the canoes. I believe the code says we need to be 4' feet from a canoe;-)

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Rookie

Just for you

Gary.Thanks for the update on Canoe Code !
I had some factory authorized service Tech come out and upgrade the board, then the trouble began with the burner shutting down, then I was told I needed a new burner and a flame recifier because of the flue gas has ruin the burner and flame rectification probe or is it the Probe electrode what ever it was it wasn't free.I am not of the same opinion, just trying to get some advice this unit has been in perfect operation since December 2001, silly me thought it was agood idea to offer the owner some outdoor reset.

Unknown

What Steam & Ice? Here's another photo.

We've decided to try out one of the new "cold weather terminations." We can then lose the "basket ball hoop."

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Unknown

Frost? What frost?

We've decided to try out one of the new "cold weather terminations." We can now lose the "basket ball hoop" SS screen.

Here is another photo of this steamy subject.

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RoosterBoy

wow if i had that on my house id pay to have a chimney
thats not worth haveing your house look like that :-)

Rookie

co prope

I could set up the tester in the intack line to see what readings I get,but I would have to wait for a windy day. Is there some type of probe that can be left on the unit and have the readings recorded automaticly?

Weezbo

today while just looking thru the place i find, small toyotomi

and it is particularily "clever..er..er" i will figureout how to scan and post as an attachment in the next twenty mins or so....You guys gonna love this one
I will title this particular work of art..."Water in Spring?".........i would like you to imagine what 3 4 feet of snow comming down off the roof this spring will manage to do for the homeowner installed heating vent...if you look up the side of the two story building there is condensate buildup to the soffits oh my aching brain cell...I think i must have reached Nirvana or something today after looking for my make up air vent for the riello B-F/ it is pathetic....

Rookie

Oil Fired ?

No problem with swirling winds on that one, it has it's own bunker to vent in, and in the spring it could be hot spring.

Unknown

Sulphur springs! (NM)

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Rookie

Painted vent

Can you paint these consentric pvc vents? What kind of paint enamel or latex?