Do condensing, 90%+ boilers always condense?

Constantin

There are a couple of places...

... for one, I really like this site that deals with fluid dynamics. They're hosting a movie of a F14 buzzing an air carrier and going through the various stages of subsonic vs. supersonic flight. Very neat stuff!

Here is another neat pic of a F14 going supersonic. No horns here though...

Uni R

Making Clouds

I have some video of a Hornet that I took from the inner area of a miltary airshow and it has the ring cloud happinging around the whole aircraft. The wierd part is how the size of the outer cloud effect oscillates so much as it is approaching. The conditions were warm and very humid and the speed was high but obviously subsonic.

Constantin

That's a neat idea...

... since it has been a while since I studied thermodynamics (oh only 10+ years!) I have a laymans question:

Wouldn't it make more sense to start off with a pressurized combustion chamber and then drop down the pressure, rather than trying to combust, compress, expand?

I have to think about this for a while and/or call up a former colleague who has a PhD in flame physics.

Kal Row

the idea is...

to bang it around in diffent ways mechanicaly - to get h20 and c02 gas solution seperated so i can condense any h20 below 212 and cool the exhaust by expansion

i am leaving no stone unturned - even concidering automotive type catalitic converters - though they would need a lot of extra air - the goal is no CO,h20,nx,o2,or heat, leaving the flue, only c02 - of course it's do-able today at a price of 20k per boiler - not cost efective - at least not yet

the boiler should also generate it own electricity or motive energy for the blowers

Ron Schroeder_3

Hi kal,

The use of an automotive cat converter probably would work with nat gas or LP (but probably not oil) and would also allow an automotive O2 sensor to control the mixture. Jacket the cat for more heat removal. It could use a lot of off the shelf parts.

Ron

Kal Row

unfortunately -..

there are a lot of “off the shelf” epa people too..
that would tag along with this show - and the epa is really government out of control!!! I want them as far away as possible

Ron Schroeder_4

By the way kal, a cat uses less excess air, not more. That's why it would work with a standard automotive O2 sensor.

Ron

Kal Row

then why does my car have and air pump...

with diverting valves, going upstream to the first bed in the cat that does hc's, when rich, or downstream to the second bed that does nx, depending on the conditions, some of the newer cars have more o2 sensors at different points in the exhaust, using the upstream sensors to control the mixtures and downstream to control the air diverter valve – so it’s not so simple – the air required is temp dependant – and would have to vary on boilers as well, but it’s not all that expensive to do anymore – cause even the cheapest cars have all this – then again, maybe you right abount how much air, cause on the really tight multivalve/ohc engines – they get away without an air pump – maybe the lousy engines are not getting enough air in there to begin with

Ron Schroeder_4

Hi kal,

Most cars don't have an air pump. The "common" cat converters need a mixture very close to stoich. to minimize all 3 common pollutants with a single cat and a simple lamda O2 sensor. Some of the super clean engines do use multiple cats, air injection, wide band O2 sensors etc., etc., etc. but most cars don't have that yet.

Ron

Constantin

Location also plays a big role

A CA-legal car will have far more elaborate emissions-control systems than a Rest-of-World (ROW) car. Most (if not all) cars sold in the US are designed to meet that standard, even though it's much tougher than the federal one, as it's too expensive for manufacturers to create a CA-legal and a CA-illegal version of their vehicles.

When I studied in France for a year, I brought over my car with me. During routine servicing, the technicians were amazed at all the extra gizmos under the hood that the EU-versions cars didn't have. Luckily, I had no major issues over there, otherwise, getting the car repaired to US specs could have been interesting (parts?).

Ron Schroeder_4

I know what you are saying, kal. We have to have the CA-legal cars here in NY too.

Ron

MikeAR

Info for Floyd

Here's an easy way to save those screenshots. With the screen you want captured maximized, press the "print screen" key, or "prt scr". That will copy the screen to the clipboard. Then open a blank paint file, go to edit, and paste. Then just save it as a jpeg. Here is a sample.

Also, I have a question on my WM Ultra 155. I was hoping to see some real savings by replacing my old boiler but so far its been minimal, like 10%. I have the water temp set at 140 instead of 180 like the old system was, and so far that has been high enough to keep the house at temp. It's actually more comfortable because it doesn't overshoot like the old one. I'm wondering if the lower temp in cast iron radiators is hurting my efficiency? With the lower temp the Ultra is going to have to run longer, but at a lower output. Any input would be appreciated.


Mike

Reynz_2

Ultra 155

Read this thread..... Floyd spelled it out pretty well.

http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cfm?CFApp=2&&Message_ID=130180&_#Message130180

Floyd_7

Thanks...

I have the screen shot thing figured out..I think:-)
I will play with it some more while I'm on vacation, leaving tomorrow.....
As far as your savings, there are alot of factors that figure in and the savings are not always what you would think, however you are getting a much more comfortable even heat!!!!
I find in my own house that I get a much greater savings in the shoulder months and in the summer when just using the indirect.
A couple of things that may help... did you disable the boost feature??? did you readjust the reset???? maybe you can lower the reset curve somemore till you find the point where the house starts to get cool and then bump it up just a bit. WM is working on a NITROUS switch the would let you bump the reset down for the most of the time and then hit that to bring the temp. back say if the power goes out or you have an exceptionally windy, or cold night.
Also you cal limit the blower speed so that the boiler cannot run at a higher BTU output then you need, I have mine at 3500 the top speed is 5200, so I figure I'm topping out at just over 100K BTU's, I'm waiting for my next gas bill to see if it helped or hurt me......Also I think that you do not want to setback too far with this system, it is better to keep the temp. up and run the boiler at a lower BTU and not have the recovery power. I'm dreaming of getting te nitrous switch hooked up so that it would be tripped by a 2nd stage from a two stage t-stat, so that I could get more setback and still get recovery......
Also play with you temps..... I find that I'm very comfortable @ 69 whereas I was running the t-stat @ 72-73 before.....
Also make sure that your boiler was installed correctly.....mine is not "by the book" but I did that on purpose to play and see if I could make it work another way.
It really has to be hooked up P/S to get the full effect and eff.

Have fun!!

Floyd