Fair Price

Walt_4

Thought I'd break this into a separate thread and add a point:

I am a homeowner. I don't mind paying a fair price for services and expertise. I'll pay more if the product is better. What I don't like is the feeling that one component of most, but not all, bids that I recieve is based on how much the tradesmen thinks I can afford.

No one is going to convince me that some tradesmen don't up the price when they find out that I am a lawyer and they see that I live in a big house. I shouldn't pay 25% more because of the part of town that my house is in. I used to be in the trades so I know this happens.

Given that this is part of how some tradesmen price a job I feel I have a right to talk to them about the price...and, god forbid, negotiate it if necessary.

As a lawyer I will cut my rate for a big job, for a regular customer or, if when a the job is done, the client has a legitimate beef about how much value I added. That just seems fair and seems like good business to me.

On a recent job at our house I thought a bid was VERY high (this was for stone work), but we had used this guy before and really like his work. We had a frank discussion about how he arrived at the price. How many guys, how much he charged for thier time, his time, an overhead charge, materials, etc. I thought he could do it with fewer men and in a lot less hours. We agreed to his pricing model, but that we would figure out the labor component when the job was done. They did a great job. It took longer than I thought it would, but a lot less time then he had budged.

As for whether we have trouble getting contractors...this contractor called us a few weeks later to see when we wanted to talk about another job we were thinking about doing. We can't afford to do it until spring, but I'm sure he'll end up with the work.

I suppose you guys don't think much of him.

Ted_9

There is nothing wrong with that, its sounds more like "time and materials".

PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.

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ScottMP

All other jobs

Should be priced 25% higher to match the price of the work done at your house. Most contractors don't charge enough money on the majority of jobs ( which is why so many go out of business or live in servitude ) and probable feel that the prices most lawyers charge, that they final have a customer who can afford what they Really should be charging. Most look at the cost of the job and feel that They could't afford that much money so Mrs. Jones down the street probable can't either, so they'll cut the price.

I have NEVER priced a job higher for ANY customer because I thought they could afford it. I have on the other hand lowered a price our wavied my fee for some one who is in finacial trouble.

I also take exception with some one who feels they know my business better than I do since they once pounded nails as a summer job. I know my cost, I know my over head and what it cost me to put a man in the truck.

I knows this sounds bitter and those who know me here Know that I am Not a bitter person. I do not how ever like the image of contractors being painted as "Thieves" who pray on wealthy lawyers.

Scott Milne



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Walt_4

Scott:

You do sound a little bitter. I do not think, and did not say, that all contractors are theives trying to pray on people. My father, for instance, is a good and honest contractor (and person). I don't claim to know your business better than you do, or any other contractors for that matter. That's why I hire professonals for many jobs.

If you do not put a little bump on your price based on the fact that you think that you can get it...than you're the kind of contractor that I work well with.

I maintain that there is sometimes an arbitray element to pricing that reflects what premium the contrator thinks they can get. If it were not for this element customers would question tradesmens' pricing less often. I think we're all better off when there is transperency in pricing.

Sorry that you took my note as a personal affront.

Best regards,

Walt

Robert O'Connor_7

Lets see...............?

It took me 4 minutes to read the posts, 4 minutes to type, 2 minutes to ask my partner what she thought (consulting), and I'll have to come back later to see if anyone flames me (engagement to wait), overhead (don't ask), its after 4:30 (overtime,,,,don't ask about that either) If I bill at minimum 15 minute intervals (just for talking on the phone or on line), sounds like a healthy profit, right??. I forgot, you get the first 15 minutes for free.....If I had to choose between 2 identical jobs, 1 in Newark (and not in a nice neighborhood), or 1 in Short Hills (very, very, affluent) for the same price, I'd pick Newark. The customer in Newark is just happy someone, anyone, even showed up. Appreciated what we did or gonna do. And you just might get a tip when your done as well as more refferals than you can handle. To top it off you might even get the coveted "CASH" job. On the other hand (in Short Hills) I can't park in your driveway, you ALWAYS!!!! haggle about price before AND after the works done. You always get a check (and if you get real hop in the a@@ people who think their sharp) expect the 1099 to come in the mail at the end of the year. You clean up better than how you found it but somehow they spot a dirt molecule on the door jam (and want a concession in price), and do not even think about asking to use the bathroom or a simple walk through the front door upon arrival. I think charging more for your services in certain neighborhoods is dishonest, however as a contractor I'm expected to do more for the Short Hills people than for the others because .........?? I'll stick to the Newark job or I'll just have to add a marketing/interpolation adjustment to your invoice...Its really the same price, just different......Just like the neighborhood.............Robert O'Connor/NJ

Weezbo

Hmm...

so you are saying? ........... you could do the work,its just that your too buzy working for a living?.........the workman you hired doesnt know his costs or how to bid?..........somehow the world revolves around your job and they obviously couldnt find work some where else?....i own a Blacks law dictionary ...have since i was 15 years old.

hr

If I were in a terrible bind and needed an attorney

I sure wouldn't shop for the lowest priced one. And I wouldn't negotiate after the job was completed (if it turned out to my advantage)

I'd give the same advise to an attorney looking for a contractor.

Take the celebrities and sports figures, for example, with enough money for legal fees they can get away with murder!

Joking of course

hot rod

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Geo_2

Your kidding walt

So Walt, You never told us how much you shook the little guy down for?? and he came back for more too??(nice story). Walt it's people like yourself that have driven most of the trades to up front pricing, thats the price Walt... no no Walt, I don't want to sit down at your 3" thick marble dining room table sipping cappuccino for two hours as your break down my bid to the molecular level trying to save Walt money. No Walt I don't add 25% to the bid for know-it-all professionals like yourself but I should, two lawyers and one physiatrist were the only three people to stiff me this year.You should first clean up your own profession first Walt... then come back and show us "bumbling blue collar" tradesmen the way.

Bob_9

There is nothing wrong with asking for a discount or asking for a job to be done on a time & material basis. The problems come in when a customer has negotiated a price and then decide that, for whatever reason, they now want to chisel you down.
If my guys kick butt, things go great and the planets are all aligned properly and we come in under time, thereby making more money on a given job, good for me. Don't ask for a discount.
By the same token, if the guys are draging for what ever reason, there is a problem with material or I just flat out blew the bid and we break even or lose on the job, I don't ask for more money. That's how it goes.
Hopefuly at the end of the day there are more good jobs than bad.
Value is determined by the consumer and no matter what I charge for your job, your neighbors job is not the same. The price will be different.
Bob

curiousity kills

Fair price???????????????

I cant believe a lawyer headlines a topic Fair price.How much time do we put into our jobs calling for material,
talking to the customer, suppley houses etc.We do not charge every time we open our mouth.I dont mean to be rude but I dont how you expect to come on a forum like this and not expect a stir up with your questions?If the job was prequoted the work was done to expectation and its backed by a warranty then you got a FAIR job.How much liability and workmans comp insurance does a lawyer have to carry?

Walt_4

Please read again

Not sure where you got some of that, but I've seen many posts on the Wall from Contractors the gist of which is that some Contractors don't know how to bid. As for whether the workmen can get other work, he does very well in my area. He did well on our job and so did we. My point is that when I kicked the tires on his bid it ended up being more than it should have. We worked it out like adults in a mutually benificial way. If his reaction was "you've questioned my bid so you can go pound sand", then he would have been out of work and I would not have gotten my job done (which was done at a level that I could not acheive no matter how much time I put into it).

Not sure what you mean about the Black's Law dictionary.

Walt_4

Stiffed

Sorry you were stiffed. I think you should pay for what you use. A lawyer who stiffs someone is a theif just like anyone else who takes something without paying for it. The only people I've been stiffed by over the last five years have been tradesmen. One who took a bunch of woodwork to his shop to strip and then wouldn't return my wife's calls when I went off to play in the sand with the Army. When I got a friend of mine to call this guy sent back part of the woodwork...some of which was not ours. Not worth chasing him. I don't take my bad experience with him to mean that all tradesmen would do the same. I've been lucky enought to work with a lot of guys who would be welcome at my door anytime.

Walt_4

Well...

...that's Short Hills for ya. If the job requires more work then it should cost more money...can't argue with you there.

Walt_4

OJ Pricing Factor

Fair Point....there are certain times when it just does not pay to negotiate.

Walt_4

After the Job is Done

I agree that a deal is a deal. Too many people have forgotten the value of thier own word....I'm usre you guys love to hear that from a lawyer, but that is my opintion. As for negotiating legal fees after the fact, this business is different from HVAC in that what I sell is my ability to negotiate. That really can vary from time to time. For you, if the room is at 70 and the system is effecient and the price is what you said it would be it is hard to argue that you didn't do your job. If I really feel like I didn't do my best on a transaction I will cut the bill some. I live on repeat business. If I'm not worth it to my clients they just go away.

Walt_4

Anger Managment

I take it you've had a bad expereince with a lawyer.

John Shea

How many Gorton #2 main vents does it take to vent an average lawyer full of hot air?

Answer: Two more than you would use for a used car salesman.

Sorry Walt, but I couldn't help but to poke fun at the law profession in general.

Like any other profession, there are good and bad people out there. That's why it's best to be a WELL informed consumer.

Don't like the price? Don't pay it. Certainly don't cry about it. Find someone that meets your budget.

Weezbo

Sounds incredibly like anyone working for you would do the same

Grumpy_2

My $.02 worth.

Walt, lawyers are not high on my list of invitees to the company Christmas party! I had the occasion to need legal assistance a while back for some corporate filings. As my previous attorney had died (on the golf course) I did what most consumers would do; I inquired of friends, family, and business associates to find a qualified replacement. Upon their recommendation, I contacted and met with the selected party. The first thing out of his piehole was, "I will require a $2000 retainer and my fees are $250 an hour". When pressed for an explanation of how he justified such fees, he replied; "It costs more for the very best!" Well, guess what Walt? Be darned glad I wasn't the chap putting down your stone walkway. You'd have thought you were paying for the Great Wall of China!"

[Deleted User]

Yep.

If I knew a potential customer was a lawyer, add dollars.

A few hundred for all of the warnings I have to read through to get to the installation instructions. A few hundred for all of the warning labels that clutter up everything I buy. A few hundred for the physical I have scheduled. Just hope the Doctor doesn't get his liability insurance bill the same day. A few thousand for increased insurance premiums this year. A few hundred for my grandchildren, who will not experience the Christmas Scenes that used to grace municipal parks. A few hundred for the Salvation Army. A few hundred for having, at 63, to show ID to buy beer at my favorite Minor League Ball Park. A few hundred for all of the licensing forms written in lawyerese. A few hundred for butane lighters w/ flames too small to light a pilot.

Looks like I scratched the surface. I'm sure the rest of the guys can add to the list. Don't think you can afford me.

ed wallace

fair pricing

now this is to funny a lawyer talking fair pricing what a joke i refuse to work for lawyers they always want a bargain

Ex Maine Doug

I know a lawyer

I would invite to my home. He is my son and he represents kids with bad parents. Does not make a ton of money but is quite capable in court of getting kids the help they need to survive. And he did not argue the price of his new HVAC system.

eleft_4

Walt to Scott,

"I think we're all better off when there is transparency in pricing."

First let me correct the spelling of what your profession is the last to show.
No charge. And it took .7 of a minute.

Merry Christmas

al

jim lockard

Well now

You must learn a good doctor is worth his money, a good lawyer is worth his money, and a good mechanic is worth his money as well. What I do requires persons of means to afford me, this I realise however given the choice as to whom I work for I am best off in the trailer parks. Best Wishes J.Lockard

John Shea

Hey, does anybody know...

How many lawyers does it take to change an air vent?

wjh

fair prices

Where is it written that your hvac contractor has to do better on his price.I am beginning to believe and see it more everyday that people will spend any amount of money on a car, boat, big house furnished with every expensive show thing you can think of ,but the hvac contractor has to do better- everybody knows more then the professional that does it everyday and they want and expect it for nothing and to last 40 yrs -can you do it for less than nothing because your price is too high

wjh

fair prices

Where is it written that your hvac contractor has to do better on his price.I am beginning to believe and see it more everyday that people will spend any amount of money on a car, boat, big house furnished with every expensive show thing you can think of ,but the hvac contractor has to do better- everybody knows more then the professional that does it everyday and they want and expect it for nothing and to last 40 yrs -can you do it for less than nothing because your price is too high

wjh

fair prices

Where is it written that your hvac contractor has to do better on his price.I am beginning to believe and see it more everyday that people will spend any amount of money on a car, boat, big house furnished with every expensive show thing you can think of ,but the hvac contractor has to do better- everybody knows more then the professional that does it everyday and they want and expect it for nothing and to last 40 yrs -can you do it for less than nothing because your price is too high

Jamie_6

Walt,

If he had taken longer then you expected would you have given him more money for the job??????

Be honest!

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Bill Nye_2

Lawyers?

Lawyers are darn lucky just to get anyone to show up at any price!! I've heard stories I probably shouldn't repeat about poor contractors getting fleeced by Lawyers. Then the word gets out and the Wolf can't get any contractor to set foot on his property in fear that they will get beat for the money or sued too!

On the other hand I have worked for one lawyer for at least 25 yrs. Nicest guy you will ever meet.

I would certainly consider adding money to the bid for the "A" factor, that's the Aggravation factor. Robt. O'Connor / NJ you summed it up quite well in your post.

J.C.A._3

This is HARD for me to spit out......

But I think Walt has raised some pretty valid points.(all lawyer jokes aside, I'll wait)

If a customer is willing to do a "contract" on a T&M basis, as long as your time charges are right, there shouldn't be a problem . He has raised some valid points and not shot back at us as a trade the way too many of us have taken his profession and generalized it. I really think he appreciates what we know and is willing to pay the price for it, unlike some of my other "well off customers", who assume we are always taking them for a ride.

Let's be civil guys. He wasn't bashing us, he was raising a point. If a customer is willing to do a T&M job,give a price for the materials and work with them. Don't lower the time charge and don't go overboard. Do the job the way you would normally do it, and make some notes. You may find that sometimes a well educated customer can teach AND get a good job at the same time.

I know this seems out of line coming from me, but the bashing and arbitrary slamming of a profession is not what WE do here.(Walt's a lawyer, get over it) At no point did he refer to any of us as depicted in the sit-coms/newspapers or buttcrack showing knucle dragging comic strips that we all see daily. I think he stated his point well and his replies were not at all "litigeous".(Big word, means CYA brothers!)

O.K., now for the Lawyer joke....True story,

Lawyer: Is it true that you declared that the victim was indeed dead while performing the autopsy?

Medical Examiner: Yes sir, I did.

Lawyer: Are you sure the victim was dead at the time of your statement?

M.E., Yes I'm sure. His brain was sitting in a jar on my desk, right in front of me.

Lawyer: Is it possible that a body can live without a brain in it's head?

M.E. Apparently, they can become trial Lawyers and ask questions like that Sir.

Levity, what a concept! Chris (Sorry Walt, just had to do it!)

Mark Eatherton1

Who's going to bear the burden...

First off, Walt is right. I know people who base the price based on what's in the garage, or driveway. These people are NOT proffessionals in my book. But nonetheless, they are out there, competing for our work on a daily basis.

If someone asks me for a price to do "anything" that is within the purview of my company, I have a responsibility to the company to make sure that I've covered every contingency possible so that I don't lose money. Now if the consumer wants to bear that burden, I have no problem with that, and in fact would be willing to do the job, if asked, for T&M not to exceed. I'm not interested in raking people across the coals, and I'd appreciate them not trying to rake me across the coals, too.

However, that said, when the consumer finds out how much I charge per man hour, they get their hackles up (ESPECIALLY lawyers, and CPA's) because they don't think that anyone should be allowed to charge more per hour than they do. It's kind of like penis envy, but its called price envy.

As a rule, we track all of our costs and know exactly where we stand from one week to the next. We also know what it takes to stay in business, and how much we need to charge in order to insure that we stay in business. No one in my company is driving around in a Cadillac Escalade or H2 Humvee. We're not out to break the bank, just out trying to do the best we can. Unfortunately, if we priced ourselves out by the hour, instead of pricing it by the job, no one would utilize our services. That, obviously, is not the case. One must show VALUE for the services rendered. If one thinks he can charge an exhorbitant amount of money just because he can, he won't be around long.

An intelligent consumer over looks the price and focuses on the value of the service. Not everyone can afford the level of service we offer. Walt hangs here at the Wall, so I consider him an intelligent consumer.

Fair, is in the eye of the beholder.

ME

toearly_2

Fair Price

> I am a homeowner. I don't mind

> paying a fair price for services and expertise.

> I'll pay more if the product is better. What I

> don't like is the feeling that one component of

> most, but not all, bids that I recieve is based

> on how much the tradesmen thinks I can afford.

> No one is going to convince me that some

> tradesmen don't up the price when they find out

> that I am a lawyer and they see that I live in a

> big house.

Walt
I am sorry to hear that you feel the way you do about contractors.
Fair Price., That is a tough one as not all services are the same.
We offer.
A real live person to answer the phone and handle all the office work.
On time service.
Service when you need it the most.
An inventory of parts.
An inventory of tools.
Proper insurance.
Licensed professionals to work in your home.
When we work in your home.
Our feet will not touch your floor with out booties over our shoes.
Our tool boxes never sit on an unprotected floor
When working in a finished area of your home floor mats are used.
When there is a need to transport large items in and out of your home they will either be wrapped or floor protection will be put down to protect your homes floors.

We do not work by the hour.
The vast majority of our prices a customer will receive come from a manual we maintain and update.
A given customer will pay the same rate as the house on the other side of town
Prices are not negotiable.
We do throw a bone every once in a while to a good customer
Overall our prices are much higher then most..
The very second a customer ask about what we pay for nonmaterial items they have crossed the line and will be told so in a polite way.

Now my question is.
How do you determine what is a fair price?
As a home owner, would you please go into detail how you come to a conclusion on the fair price topic?
I would like to learn something from this.

David

ScottMP

So Mark

Would you sit down with Walt and negotiate your price ?

I did'nt mean to sound mean and bitter to Walt. I've never met the man and as I have been the first to say this in the past, he should be welcome here.

It just push's a button with me when I here a customer tell me that my price is much to high. Where does the average consumer get the experience to know what my cost are ? What if Walts "negotiated price" job came out just as the contractor had bid ? Would the full price have been paid. Its fits this story that it came out lower. My hackles were raised because the gist of the story was that "contracotrs" try and get more money then they are worth or intitled to.

Are there really lawyers out there that will not hang up the phone when asked if they could do better on the price ? Really ?

This whole post and the other ones Beats Home the fact that we as a trade NEED to know the cost of doing business. We need all contractors to do this.

When a price is given and then negotiated down, dosn't that say " hey your right I just threw that out there and really have no idea what it cost for me to be in business ". " You tell me what its worth ". Is that the state of our industry ?

I guess Walts post set me off because after so many years, this is still the standard in our trade. We can be negotiated with just like a used car salemans. No better off than the local handiman who squeezes by with handouts from those better off. Maybe a free chair or desk thats being thrown out, to bring home to the wife. How sad !

Untill this image changes, this is the future of our trade. The only ones to change this is those in the trade !!

Walt, my apologeze to you if my remarks came of as an attack on you. You are a guest here and welcome to add your comments any time. I just might not agree with them

Scott

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jackchips_2

So let's see,

Walt said he thought the price was too high, the contractor was WILLING to negotiate, the cost came in somewhere in the middle, everyone was happy (the mason called looking for more work) and this makes Walt a _______ (fill in your own word while looking in the mirror).

Yep, the American way. Go Walt.

When in business the thing that annoyed me as much as anything were people who claimed I was too high and never talked to me. I guess times have changed. Now we can state our number and tell someone to "_________" (again fill in your own words, which some of you will).

One disappointing aspect of this and a couple other posts (one that was finally removed) are the way we all have taken some comments, put our own interpretation and then crucified the writer, even after they tried to explain.

We have to realize that we are not all Dan H's and able to get our points across without offending. But if the offense is not personal, why get personal?

In the spirit of the Season and words from that great philosopher, Rodney King, "Can't we just get along?".

Ps. to Chris, your joke was funny and I could just see Grissom sitting in the witness chair making that statement.

Merry Christmas All.

Jack

joel_19

hmmm

Interesting , lots of anger here towards lawyers probably rightly so . However fellow contractors we also have a PR problem LOTS of people think we rip them off. Of course for the most part this isn't true. If it where then how come we can't afford to live in the nieghborhoods where the lawyers live ? Something to think about , obviously we don't make that kind of money but people think we do so that's gotta get fixed. As far as negotiation goes that's pretty easy to handle , just say no!. Simple done end of story. I'm having alot of legal work done right now I'm not going to negotiate the fee . I think the lawyer would be insulted if I tried. I don't get insulted when somebody tries to do it to me I've got thicker skin than that. I have had a couple people try to "negotiate" a contract after we have completed the work (what are they thinking?) They of course simply get a call from the lawyer....

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Dave Yates (PAH)

A lot of my friends and clients

are lawyers & CPA's. We don't price any job by the home or what's in their driveway. Like ME said, our pricing is based upon our business, its overhead and the profit margin we need to reinvest in our operation and its employee's benefits.

That said, I do not negotiate pricing on bids. This isn't "Let's Make a Deal", it's our business and how we make a living. It does strike me as comical that a lawyer is grousing about what we charge.

We posed a simple question to our accounting firm - do we need to charge sales tax for furnace/boiler cleanings? They never said there would be a charge for obtaining an answer, so we never gave it a second thought - until we got the $1,500.00 bill!!!!! Now, as you might expect, that was a bit of a shocker and I decided to Google the answer we'd received. Low & behold - there it was on the net - word for word - exactly as stated on their reply. As it turned out, an intern had been assigned to research our question. They are paid a pittance, yet we were charged what certainly appears to be an outrageous fee. I questioned the firm and they were highly insulted. As I tried to explain, if they had told us up front that there would be a fee (especially that fee), I would have had the opportunity to choose. Instead, I feel like I've been robbed. We will probably switch firms, but one thing is certain - it will be a cold day in hell before I ask them another question.

While Walt can negotiate his time, I have based my pricing on what it costs me to open the doors and meet my obligations. That's a fixed number Walt, not one with lots of additional profit padding that would allow me to charge what the current traffic would bear. You'd pay the same price as the little old lady down the street. And, as Scott said, we too sometimes waive fees for those less fortunate.

There's bad apples in every barrel. Interesting that the mason was willing to share his labor breakout with overhead for your scrutiny. I wouldn't have done that.

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singh

college degree=more$$$

I think most of the public,especially those "white collar professionals" believe that the piece of paper hanging on the wall is worth alot, more than some BOCES trained GED, uneducated blue collar rip-off tradesman. How dare they charge me these prices. I "know" more and I got a degree to prove it.
If you turn a wrench for a living your beneath me, not my equal, not a legit business person and especially not my superior.

It's sad but that is the way most of the public thinks, they value college graduates as more worth, and therefore your lawyer,doctor,pychiatrist and CPA could get away with charging more per hour and not prove their cost of doing business . Or negotiate down.

Unknown

If your pricing is solid, you have nothing to negotiate.

Negotiation is only a factor if you have wiggle room. right?

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Kyle Kubs - Benchmark Home Inspection Services

You can build a mansion

Since the days when I first started trying to make a living in the trades I have always wondered what makes eight hours of someone elses (Doctor, Lawyer)life worth 5-100 times as much as eight hours of my life. One of my favorite rants to this day. Mostly I just sum it up with a line I heard in a song once "You can build a mansion, you just can't live in it..." Sucks doesn't it...

jerry scharf_2

the favorite reply on this site

Walt,

Are people overcharging you for your address? It depends.

You as a lawyer are in business. Depending of the law firm, you may or may not set the rates, sell the jobs, etc. If you do, you understand all the things that don't show up that are needed to paid for.

Many contractors out there will bid jobs lower than the people you see on this site. This could be for any number of reasons.

I learned a long time ago from the best construction manager I will ever work with that it's not your job to set the price. Your job is to qualify the hell out of the bidders, so any one of them will do the job you want done the way you want it done. Will some people try to make more money off you because of your address? sure. Your job is to cut those people out before they bid or know that about them. With a major job, there's no real reason not to do this weeding out.

Can you negotiate? Sure! You found one successful strategy with shifting a job to T&M. Another one is a slightly lower base and an early completion bonus (assuming it's part of a larger schedule.) There are others that can win for both sides.

I think there are several things that go into the emotions you stirred up.

First is the I am/have been screwed energy. It's like the Balkans, everyone remembers the past misdeeds even if they were hundreds of years ago. Everyone wins if we can be wise and get the chip off our shoulders. The people here are the first to admit that there are contractors out there that shouldn't be in the business and homeowners no one should have to work for.

Second, there is an issue of respect that was mentioned. Just about everyone has run into the superior people, and contractors get it in spades. It sounds like you have a fair respect for good trades people. Use that to your advantage. Make sure you offer to shake hands first and thank them for coming out to talk. Offer them a cup of coffee if you have some made. Talk openly about the way you want your house treated. Shake their hand on the way out. It will help in any negotiations you may have!

Third is the win-lose model. So many people think that if they get the most dollars off the job, they've won. There were a couple threads about water heater installs that talk about this. Again, for my construction manager guru, the goal is to get the job done on time, on budget and everyone makes money. If they understand that you come from this point of view, you can negotiate without alienating the other side. If not, you may just get what you pay for.

Best of luck, and may all your contractors be part of your team.

jerry