Supply houses selling to public

pperkins

Just wanted contractors opinion on this.I think there cutting into the hard working family mans pockets,never mind the liabilty.

Constantin

It depends, no?

... Were I a tradesman, I would not mind a supply house furnishing a HO with disposable filter media for their air handler, for example. Or selling them a replacement sump pump. Small stuff like that shouldn't eat into your business.

On the other hand, I would be pretty upset if the supply house started selling split AC systems, complete boiler packages, and the like to UNQUALIFIED individuals (clueless DIY'er and hack "Pro" alike). From what I have heard, many states' requirements to call yourself a "Pro" are downright laughable and more a reflection of the tax wants by the state than actual safety/performance/etc. standards.

But what do I know, I'm a mere homeowner in the badlands of the People's Republic of Cambridge.

tom_49

diyers

Unfortunately I guess the suppliers can sell anyone copper pipe, duct work etc. They shouldnt be allowed to sell any equipment though ( furnaces, boilers, a/c ) You really should be qualified to buy it. Sadly,in my state ( MA ) theres no "licensing", less gas fitters,oil licence for Heating & a/c contractors. I think thats a BIG part of the problem. Until we start getting serious about real licences and real hvac inspections ( not looking to see if theres a return in every bedroom ) this problem will continue. Oh yeah I know........ Its your house and you should be able to do anything you want to it, right. Well what about WHEN you sell it and the shotty work youve done in it becomes the next guys nightmare? my $.02

Boston Boiler

Don't worry so much about your supply house because the big boys are trying to take them out too just as they did to a lot of lumber yards. Yes, Home Depot would be the correct guess. I have seen a Slant Finn oil boilers on display at Home Depots in both MA (which requires a license to install)
and New Hampshire. Taco circs., Honeywell relays, and the list goes on. Look at the prices also and when the little supply house gets bumped out those are also your prices.
Home owners don't realize that just because they can buy these items when they install them incorrectly they are the ones liable and in a time when home owner insurance policies dictate what kind of dog you can have livivg in your home don't think they will not act or neglagence.
Lets not dream that the big guys only pick up the home owners, pass through one of their lots and count all the contractor trucks!!

BB

A.J.

Foregive the rant

but i live in a part of western Pa. that is probably the same as the rest of you H.C. are use to dealing with.
The local supply houses will sell to anybody with a check book including HOME D. & LOS.My question is , why do I have to be certified for gasline installation (underground),AC (reclaiming), carry the proper combustion and testing equipment,spend money on tech. training,do heat loss & gains (for proper equipment selection)and follow the Pa. Dept.of Labor & Ind and the UCC code that Pa. finaly adopted?
Why, because it is all about buisness (the almighty dollar). Have any of you H.C. noticed all the WARNING & CAUTION notices in big blues install instructions, why do you think they put them in there? Becuase when a H.O. installs a oil appliance he got from the local hard ware store and soots up the house and needs it cleaned becuase he was told it comes set up from the factory big blue will not be held liable.This happens on a regular basis in are area judging by the number of calls we receive to clean these new appliances.A sooted up applaince is not a big liablity issue ,this will not drive any change in are industry but that will cuase change is loss of life.Last month a H.O. installed a new gas furnace in his home out side of Pittsburgh and ended blowing up his house and putting his wife and kids in the hospital. This H.O. was in over his head but who is going to be held accountable in the end, manufacture, supplier of equipment, or H.O.and his insurance?
Untill loss of life and doing a quality job is more important than making a dollar things aren't going to change!
To steal Dennise Miller's closing line, but it's just my opinion I could be wrong.

larry_9

Selling from warehouses.

Just so you know I am a union pipefiter, started my apprenticeship in connecticut, a state ran apprenticeship program in New England. Then I moved to Chicago. Which has a Union ran Apprenticeship program. Now I live in Minnasota which has a state licening program yhat I am all for, However, everytime I talk to anyone about my experiance they tell me I have to start all over in the Minnasota because I am not licened I am willing to take any test they are willing to give me, but the say I have not went thuoght there appentship program so I don't qualify.

My bigest complaint is that I have 15 years of schooling form basic hydronics, steam, refrigeration to weilding lay-out to advance hydronices ( primary secondary systems injection heat to radiant ) I worked for two year with a heating plumbing contractor in New England and a Design Refigeration Contractor in Chicago for 11 years. However, Because I didn't need a Licene in Chicago here in Minnasota I am Having a hard time in gtting a job. All the contractors want me to start out as an apprentice to work for them. The Union is a plumbing union and evry one out here is a plumber and can do steam, hydroninic, refigeration and plumbing they don't to know anything eles. Plumber's can do it all. And the warehouse can sell to anyone who walks in Who care if they know anythig? Only profressiooonal who know what is right or wrong!

Larry

mark_40

your mistake !

by becoming a liscensed contractor ! .... just be a Hack, then there's no EPA, local liscense .. to deal with !

Supply House Rick

Contractors First...

We will NOT sell, design or Spec a complete system for the DIY, homeowners or hacks. This makes a lot of DIY's angry at the counter, who cares! We tell them to call a contractor... Parts anybody can buy, if you know the manufacturer and model #.

My 2 cents,
Rick

heatboy

How about........

contractors who but from places like HD and Lowes. A supply house has to make it's money somewhere if contractors buy elsewhere.

Supply House Rick

HD & Lowes

We lose very little to the Big Box shopper, they are for people with way too much time on their hands. Who wants to spend the morning wandering past the nut & bolt section to find HVAC items? And yes I said it, the quality on many many items in the Big Box is not the same from Wholesalers (don't believe me, check Delta Faucets)

Joe_47

Supply House rick is right...check the codes on Moen too...not the same period!

Uni R

Codes

I do believe that some part of that may be due to the fact the big boxes try to get unique codes so that they don't get stung excessively on low price matching. If it's not the same code, they don't have to do a price match. Really good incentive to have your own special product codes.

EJW

Faucets

Most of the faucets are IPS connections, with no sweat options like a Delta from the supply house. Does anyone remember when FW Webb was "wholesale or no sale"? Ah the good old days!!

Ted_9

I just want to make it know that I do not buy from either store. No heating, plumbing or electrical supplies. Its mainly junk and I refuse to support junk dealers. Have you ever looked at the copper fittings> They look like the worst batch that a company could make.

PATRIOT HEATING & COOLING, INC.

pperkins

Well ,,i was'nt too happy when the manager at a supply house who sold a condensor to a home owner, with no epa card!!!LOSS MONEY ON THAT ONE....Should turn his butt in!!Just trying to make a living

Ray_9

Wholesale only??

There's a lumber yard _ Yes they still exist- near me on LI that will only sell to contractors. They have large signs on the doors NO RETAIL SALES and NO SALES WITHOUT A SALES TAX RESALE # - they did this about 9 years ago and are going strong. One of the countermen there explained they would rather sell a complete deck to a contractor in the time it took to sell a 2x4 to a DIYer.
Also, I find in any plumbing supply store I've ever been in, there's always a sign that trade customers come first.
And yes, I'm a homeowner, not a pro.

A.J.

way to go supply house rick

if you are a supply house that is sticking to the traditional supply chain. Supply houses in are area will sell equipment (not talking about parts ) to anybody and for the same price that I buy off them more times than not. If I could find a supply house with traditional values they would get 100% from me.

Mark Hunt

I buy from \"Supply House Rick\"


N&S Supply is as good as they get.

Not as big as FW Webb or RE Michel, but they are hungry.

The industry is changing folks, doesn't matter which part you fall in. It IS changing.

The cross-roads! Change and live, resist and die. Pick.

N&S wants to live.

Thanks Rick and all the folks at N&S. (Except that **** Randy)

Mark H

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eleft_4

Wholesale only!!!!!!!

Silly! anyone can get a sales tax number. New construction or owner occupied home does not require a sales tax to be charged on material or labor for renovation, addition or landscape work in CT.
Having a contractor license or a sales tax permit does not guarantee the work is not a "hack" job.

If the wholesaler sells to list price customers at least he gets his money at the time of the sale, not 30, 60, 90, or never.
Bottom line is for everyone in business including suppliers.

Unknown

Cambridge.

Yup.

People's republic of.

You are strapped. However, I happen to know the person and persons of the inspectional services. they are good folk.

Cant see why there should be any problems with this.

Gary

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Unknown

You still HATE PEX?

BB?



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BOB WILLARD

There are many home owners that SERVICE AND INSTALL

Burners.. I'm in the business for many years and i've seen it all!! Home Depot now sells just about everything from nozzles to burners complete...I look at things this way--Just because a home owner isnt in the burner business doesnt mean anything--In todays world--Home owners know so much (NOT ALL) but you will be supprised what i have come across in the years--There is so much info online many books and just very smart people... I was always told you dont have to be a brain surgeon to fix or install burners--I been doing this for 30+ years and i know there are home owners out there that can do what we do!! I've seen it! I've seen home owners doing smoke tests--Homeowners-doing draft tests--Believe me i've seen it all!!! Supprised but seen it all...I saw one guy hooked up an OSV valve and cleaned and rebuilt his suntec oil pump-ran mint at 100 lbs and fire was nice...I was in a home where this guy installed a new hot water furnace from a to z--and my eyes dropped out of my head--It was simply perfect!!! I checked everything.. The guy owned a tile store--read online-read some books--and installed a 100% clean as hell running furnace in his own home.. So when we all say--Homeowners--we have to be careful--Not all homeowners are blind when it comes to burners!!!! Thats a FACT--believe me-I dont like it any more then the rest of you--But 30+ years in the business--I see it more and more today then ever before....
It kills me big time... I seen guys that know nothing about cars--and drop a new transmission right in the driveway--and the car is up and running 100%! Life is short--enjoy it to the max.......... Take care.........

Boston Boiler

Ghost of Gary Wallace

I see you've been sitting back waiting to hit me with the PEX comments. I still don't like the idea of plastic pipe but I will admit that after seeing so many picture post with
PEX in them on this site that I was wrong about the lack of tradesmanship and skill involved. I don't see your adverage HO matching these jobs just because it is available.

BB

heretic

Hard workin family man?

These 'lock down the supply lines' threads go by here all the time.

Non-pros can be hard-workin family men too. Bet many of your customers work hard for their money too.

I'd suggest protecting your market by providing outstanding service to your customers, instead of relying upon artificial restrictions and regulations to drive business to your door.

Most trades manage to thrive without such protections. If you really think homeowners are a threat to your business, you may be doing it wrong.

Jamie Hall

Many hats...

I wear. Mostly a building superintendent. But a sort of general comment: you're all right. In general, I prefer to hire a contractor to do something in my buildings. I don't have time. However... there are many many times when some little thing needs to get fixed, and needs to get fixed NOW. It is very rare for me to be able to call a contractor (even one who has worked for me!) and get that kind of thing done. Then I like to be able to go to a supply house and buy the part or piece of pipe or whatever, take it back, and fix the problem. Does that make me a DIYer? yup. Does it make me a hack? I'd rather not think so; if I don't know what I'm doing, I don't do it. Fortunately, the supply houses in this area seem to be able to cope with my situation (at least plumbing and heating -- the electrical is another story altogether).

Boston Boiler

Jamie

Building Super's or Building Maintenance are kind of between a DIY'r and a pro. Usually they have a little bit of several trade knowledge and the buildings they work usually have an account with the local hardware store. Like yourself they usually contract out the big stuff or projects that they are not familiar with or licensed to do. I have worked with several building super's and they are usually not hacks for the most part.

BB

ScottMP

Can you buy

pants at the same price that Carhart buys thems at ?

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Unknown

I agree, Scott

Anyone shopping for a SINGLE peice of equipment in ANY trade is being silly thinking they deserve the same pricing as a retailer that buys many per month, and handles the on-site warranty work, and stocks parts on trucks to service these same units.

It's a two way street.

The wholesalers have every right to insist on minimum monthly purchases and an open account in good standing, before they sell a product to the RETAILER, whom EVERYONE in the trade intends to sell the product to the end user.

Wanting to jump up the ladder from retailer to wholesaler because of price only is no incentive whatsoever to anyone wanting to provide good service to their customers to sell to you.

What right does ANYONE have to buy a single item at wholesale prices, without any warranty capabilities to service it? I'm sure there IS an answer, but I don't know it.

Once you cut the retailer out of the loop, who are you going to call in the middle of the night when you have no heat? The wholesaler?

The manufacturer?

Noel

tommyoil

Heretic

I must say I agree with you. I paid to be trained, certified,insured, ect and dont see DIY'ers as a threat in the least. As a matter of fact I've seen alot of DIY jobs that are far and away better than some "hack" pro jobs. If you do your job right to begin with, you'll always have work. If DIY'ers foul up the job, you'll get MORE work. I welcome the competition. Its what sets us apart from the rest. I built my own deck and my GC buddy didnt get pissed. He still has work. I only install boilers. Does that mean I shouldn't be able to buy or install anything else?? I dont see the homeowner DIY'er as the enemy, or competition for that matter. If you go out of business or are threatened by a homeowner doing his own work, maybe a career change is in order. Sorry if this isn't popular opinion, and NO OFFENSE INTENDED. Dont want to get anyone in a knot. To me this is a non-issue.

Joel M

Where I live there is a supply house that formerly only sold wholesale, now they will sell anything to anybody. I say GREAT! I am a diy'er but only for things I am confident in doing. When I needed to replace the diverter and temp control on my Temptrol bath/shower fixture, where else would I get the parts? HD or Lows dont sell them, I dont need to hire a plumber to do the work. The only rule they have is if diy'er is there same time as contractor, contractor gets service first which is fair since his time is his $$$

eric_2

Actually

the codes are big-box exclusive. Faucets are made to "spec" according to big-box orders. Ususaly means all the brass hes been replaced with plastic. If it's not in the price books, it's usually not a "real" Moen faucet.

Supply House Rick

Thanks Mark

We place a high value on repeat business from contractors, not a one time shot at a homeowner with cash. Mark is unique, he knows what he want and why. Mark and Darin are a pleasure to serve. They have also taught me alot...
Rick

Supply House Rick

DIY

Please call a contractor, you know...with factory training, insurance, co testing equipment, competitive rates, tools, knowledge. Hacks work out of their trunk, cheapen the trade and take up our valuable time probing for answers they should already know!

Uni R

DIY <> Hack

Your post is offensive. If, for example my boiler's PRV valve starts leaking from old age, I have two choices. Book a full day off work for someone to come in (and they are 95% likely to show up) and change it out (and it may be done in a hurry) with whatever he has on the truck or go to a supply house, get the one I want that I know is best in terms of application and quality and then put it in properly - right away.


I don't expect trade pricing, but I would cringe if I thought my supply house actually had the attitude that they were trying to "punish" me. Unfortunately, the line between hacks and pros is thin and not obvious in many cases until after the work is done. How many pros started as hacks? In additon, there are DIYs that can put some pros to shame. It's no as black and white and you try and make it out to be.

Uni R

ttt

Supply House Rick

Safety

If you are doing work in your own house that's one thing. I am talking about the Station Wagon Guy with the magnetic signs on his doors that works for $40 an hour and has NO CLUE. These are the people who take up our valuable time that should have been spent with professionals. I wish I had a dollar for everytime I have heard "I need that thing that goes on the you know what?" Then they get mad at us for not understanding them. I have actually heard "give me what I need, not what I asked for!"

jim sokolovic

But you do get a dollar...

or more than that, for those instances - remember your (deleted) words?

Supply House Rick

Some things...

Are better left unsaid. Contractors are our FIRST and only priority. Is this SlantFin's official stance on this? We do sell alot of SlantFin Baseboard, maybe not as much as the Big Orange Box