Weil McClain Piping

Carl Eckels

Appreciate any comments on the steam piping for this single pipe system. The boiler, an LGB 14, was installed in 1989. In 2002, 4 sections were removed because "new energy efficient windows were installed." Orginally, the boiler provided about 4500 sq. ft. of steam. Can't say as I understand how it performs now. The building measures near 5000 feet. I am wondering if it is adviseable to add insualtion, accept the window improvements and see if I can take apart and reassemble smaller radiators. Anyone have experience with this? Also, anyone have experience or suggestions on the use of a Pro Temp ST 72 control. System is in 31 unit four story apartment building. Has been running two hour cycles.

One last thing. Some pvc pipe on the boiler ceiling used for a sump drain looks like it was melted out of shape by the heat in the room.

The building is located in Lakewood, a suburg just west of Cleveland, Ohio.
Thanks,
Carl Eckels

Paul Mitchell

Dont totally understand question...

Does it heat the building? Count all the radiators and size it up. This will give you the total EDR. Then Check with the manufacturer and see the output of the boiler now less the four sections. If it is good ok. Witgh steam you can not just remove sections. The boiler has to handle the system EDR. Dans books can help. Making radiators bigger will only make troubles worse if boiler is now undersized.
Hope this helps a bit.

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Carl Eckels

Yes, it does

appear to heat the building, but at a cost...high gas bills. EDR measures just over 5,000 sq. ft. The orginal boiler rating was approximately 4400 sq. ft. I don't know how that rating changes because four sections were removed. I am asking if it seems feasible to take apart the existing suite radiators and reduce them in size as well as eliminate some because of the EDR problems. Also have some concerns about the header piping and have asked Weil McClain to look.

Randy Tibbits

I did'nt see a hartford loop or an equilizer. Also does the boiler room have adequate combustion air? Whats the operating pressure?

Paul Mitchell

Well as far as I am concerned

I think you should install the correct boiler. I would not take apart the old rads. Weil McLain can probably fax you specs. I thought you said 5000 sq ft as in living space. If boiler is only rated at 4400 then it was undersized to start with. Now way under because of missing sections.
Take it out and start from scratch. Will be more efficient and much happier.

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Randy Tibbits

This is out of my area of experiance. But I still wonder and ponder solutions. Would thermostatic radiator valves control the load and make a difference? Chances are with the new windows the run time on the radiators would be less. Every radiator rquiring heat at the same time seems unlikley. It could make it worse, just a thought.

Boilerpro_3

No need to remove sections

if it is two pipe steam. If you really wnat to do it nice, run a room by room heat load calc and figure the proper EDR for each radiator. Check radiator sizes and with the ones that are too big (probably all of them), record the supply pipe size. Then, check the size of your mains to determine the pressure drop. With the likely much lower load running through your mains, it is likely your steam system will become a vapor system (maximum needed pressure 8 OUNCES, not Pounds). Then armed with this info, contact Tunstall, and they can supply you with orifice plates that can be installed in the valves to limit the steam going to each rad according to the load on the rad. This effectively lowers your EDR rating of the radiation, and may allow you to downsize the boiler even further. Pick up some of Dan's books on steam and look closely at the vapor systems there. You'll get a good picture about what i'm talking about.

Boilerpro

Carl Eckels

Yes, hartford loop and

equalizer are in system. Outside air comes from a plenum to the floor across the room. I can't speak to operating pressure since we just acquired this property. My guess is that it is higher than it needs to be but not much beyond 1lb. Any comment about the header piping?

Andy Stack

Carl we will be more than happy to help. We are a local contractor specializing in steam and hot water heat. Our information is in the "Find A Professional" section of this website.

Andy Stack
Andy Stack & Associates
440-937-9134

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Jamie Hall

couple of thoughts...

The guys above (real experts!) are right on -- you size your boiler according to the EDR of the attached radiation. Oversize, and you get an interesting and unpleasant variety of problems. Undersize is worse, though -- uneven heat and sky-high fuel bills as the poor little thing tries to make enough steam. Add up your connected EDR and size the boiler on that.

The thing to remember about TRVs is that it is quite likely that they will all be open when the boiler control decides to call for heat. What will happen as they close is that the boiler will shut off on pressure (remember: low is good, lower is better!; it's supposed to do that!) and the remaining steam will heat the remaining radiators. It works.