Vermont endangered?

John R. Hall

I saw this news item today where Vermont has been placed on the endangered historical list to prevent Walmart from moving in. Does the same apply for other big boxes like Home Depot and Lowes?

What sayeth you Ken?

http://start.earthlink.net/newsarticle?cat=6&aid=D82P3JJ80_story

Ken_8

Funny you should ask.

I'm heading up there to fish, golf and drink copious amounts of beer - check that, diet tonic and Gray Goose (I'm still doing Atkins)in exactly 23 hours 22 minutes and 11 seconds.

They have a "provincial" way of viewing "outsiders" that borders on perverted. Interesting, the largest city in the U.S. to ever elect a registered communist mayor was Burlington. Also of note, the first state to sanction "Gay Unions".

But then...

Ben & Jerry's is ensconced there - as is Cabot Cheese. It ain't all whakoland (;-o)

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Tom Anderson

'Tis true.

Folks out in the boonies are complaining they have to drive forever to decent stores because the big box stores have put many regional/village stores out of business.

But then again, you see an awful lot of folks from the boonies (aka "Woodchucks") walking around in a state of awe and rapture at all the "stuff" at Home Depot, Walmart, etc.

Ben & Jerry's is the number one tourist attraction in the state. I'm currently doing work in their corporate headquarters. Not a place one would feel comfortable working unless you buy the company philosophy and political persepctives hook, line and sinker.

Guess that means my wife, a native, is now an endangered species. :-)


Thomas E. Anderson
President
Cx Associates, Ltd.
Building Commissioning Specialists
http://www.cx-assoc.com
933 Road 101
Jeffersonville, Vermont 05464 USA
hvac@cx-assoc.com
Tel: 802-644-5616 Fax: 802-644-6797

Mike T., Swampeast MO

Wal-Mart got its start in my area

Good and bad. (Mainly bad in my mind, but I'm a small retailer so am decidedly prejudiced.)

Good in that you can find an awful lot of things that most people need and the price is certainly low.

Bad:

1) In this area they leave a string of ever-larger buildings, ever further away from any existing town center as their leases expire. They often stay empty for a long time and new tenants are often short-lived. Might not happen as badly now since their Supercenters are so big that it's hard to get much bigger.

2) Smaller general merchandise stores of reasonable quality will die--it may take a while until they give up, but they die nonetheless. As they tend to attract other mega-stores around them, specialty retailers will be harder and harder pressed and many of them will die as well.

3) Their pay is low and they treat their managers like s$*(. Of course retail isn't a very high-paying job to begin with but if a Supercenter it will have food and pay will be no better. Most grocery chains pay reasonably--not Wal Mart!

4) Wal-Mart often expects (and receives) LOTS of "Corporate Welfare" in the form of tax abatements, road construction, etc!

5) It WILL alter traffic patterns in a small town as they almost always locate in places with low-cost land (edge of town). Even if they don't immediately receive a subsidy in the form of road building, it will come later as traffic snarls!

Firedragon_4

Whoa, you scared me John, I'm on my

way to VT to do seminars next week and thought that maybe they had finally caught up to me :-)

hr

Mike

sounds like you don't have any WalMart stock in your portfolio

Certainly there are pros and cons to large corporate owned stores. It's been going on in the plumbing wholesale industry for years also. Seems a handfull of large corporations own most of the supply business. Wosley has been buying up small shops for years.

I actually have a number of customers that have small manufacturing companies that sell to WalMart. So there have in fact been jobs outside WalMart corporate that have sprung up as a result of "WalMart"

Let's face it Walmart and other discount stores like it exist because people want the everyday lowest possible prices. Same reason offshoring has become so popular, and the chain restaurants.

I remember when the box stores, and grab joints, came to Park City. The most vocal opponents were first in line to shop the "blue light specials"

I do miss the small town hardware stores, however

hot rod

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Ken_8

Hey neighbor...

Know any good SIPS construction design builders in your area - or north of you?

I am building a retirement home in Enosburg near Montgomery and need someone who knows what they're doing. There are a few builders I like that are neighbors, but none has any real experience with SIPS.

Thanks.

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Ken_8

Let's not forget what country we live in!

This is America.

We run on a free enetrprise market system.

That system is based on capitalism.

That runs on open and free competition to get goods and services into the marketplace.

I am a little guy who competes with the giants every day, and rather successfully I might add.

If the little guys don't know how to compete, our system suggests they are not viable and either adapt, exploit something they have that the competing force cannot - or come work for one of us (:-o)

We all know what happened back when Honeywell made computers. We also know what happened to Bethlehem Steel. They couldn't compete and dropped a division - or filed for bankruptcy.

Why should Vinny Boombotz's P&H be under any different market force?

After all, it is America and I thank God every day that it is the way it is.

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Larry Weingarten

SIPS

Hello: Suggest you contact manufacturers who make SIPS you like and find out who installs their panels. My experience is that they'll be happy to tell you.

Mike T., Swampeast MO

You and Ken are both right

It's also my years in historic preservation talking. I long ago realized that nearly every small to medium sized town in the Midwest was destined to be nearly identical as viewed from the Interstate highways.

It will be a pity though if small towns that have managed to keep their individual character for a couple of hundred years go down the same path.

Wal-Mart certainly has those low prices and the demand for their good certainly exists, but they have before really pushed the limits of fair competition. In earlier years their entire over-the-counter medicine and toiletry departments were their "loss leaders". It took a big-time lawsuit in Oklahoma to get them to stop the practice.

I'm sure there are some success stories from smaller companies selling to Wal-Mart, but I honestly hear of many that sour rapidly. The company completely looses its original small-customer base after they start selling to them, then Wal-Mart finds the same or similar product for a penny cheaper, switches suppliers and the original supplier is stuck with no buyers and bitter previous customers that have since "moved on".

I certainly get my bargains, but honestly haven't been into a Wal-Mart in over three years and have only visted K-Mart a few times. Sam's Club is a different matter as once they arrived most of my prior sources "went away" and I'm left with no choice unless I want to drive to or have things mailed from St. Louis. My "hypocritical sin" would have to be Lowes for general construction supplies and occasional closeout specials. At least we still have a two good plumbing houses (one with attached old-time hardware store)in town and they've managed to stay competitive.

Wal-Mart is very good at what they do, but I will stand by the statement that they change the character of places where they locate.

DaveGateway

Interestingly enough....

Wal Mart is experiencing similar opposition to it's intrusion into the city of Chicago. Thoroughly ensconsed in the surrounding suburbs, Wal Mart is fighting HUGE opposition from labor groups, mom and pop stores, and thusly,...city hall for trying to impinge on the inner city quality of commerce. K Mart's been here for years. French owned Target has a foothold. I think it's the "megastore" concept that has everyone too freaked out. The WM corp is using the same jobs-prices-etc.- argument to move into an urban environment as they are into rural America. Veeerry interesting.

Thought I'd pass this one on as mailed to me from my niece whose husband has been in Afghanistan AND Iraq. Sorry, I don't have the stamina to edit right now.

>Subject: TARGET > > >Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 09:09:10 -0500 >by **** Forrey of the Vietnam Veterans Association > >Recently we asked the local TARGET store to be a proud sponsor of the >Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall during our spring recognition event. > >We received the following reply from the local TARGET management: >"Veterans >do not meet our area of giving. We only donate to the arts, social >action groups, gay &lesbian causes, and education." > >So I'm thinking, if the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall and veterans in >general do not meet their donation criteria, then something is really >wrong >at this TARGET store. We were not asking for thousands of dollars, not >even hundreds, just a small sponsorship for a memorial remembrance. > >As a follow-up, I e-mailed the TARGET U.S. corporate headquarters and >their response was the same. That's their national policy. > >Then I looked into the company further. They will not allow the Marines >to collect for 'Toys for Tots' at any of their stores. And during the >recent Iraq deployment, they would not allow families of employees who were >called up for active duty to continue their insurance coverage while they >were >on military service. Then as I dig further, TARGET is a French-owned >corporation. > >Now, I'm thinking again. If TARGET can not support American Veterans, >then >why should I and my family support their stores by spending our hard >earned >American dollars and to have their profits sent to France. Without the >American Vets, where would France be today? > >Feel free to pass this along to whomever you want. > >Sincerely, > >**** Forrey

At least Wal Mart is US born and bred.

Tom Anderson

Hi Ken:

There is local contractor who has experience with those systems and has a pretty good local reputation. Personally, he'd be my first choice.

Let's chat about that. You can contact me via e mail at:

hvac@cx-assoc.com

Tom Anderson

Jamie Hall

Dang Flatlanders...

keep in mind -- tightly in mind -- that Vermont has a split personality! There are the natives -- and durn few of them -- who would kind of like to be in the Twentieth Century, if not the 21st (we lived there, not as natives (although my children are) for long enough to be pretty well accepted). And then there are Flatlanders, who have all kinds of money and so on -- and view Vermont as a very quaint place to vacation.
And you will find that about the only thing the two sides agree on is the time of day, and not always that!
The fights can get real nasty... and are over everything from spreading manure to windmills on ridge lines to Wal-Mart.