pex

BOB_22

I'm planning on installing pex under floor staple up in plates for my bathroom. My qestion is how does Safelink pex compare to Wirsbo pex? What are the pros and cons of each? Thanks in advance for all replys.

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment onthe wirsbo as I hav"nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment onthe wirsbo as I hav"nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment onthe wirsbo as I hav"nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment onthe wirsbo as I hav"nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment onthe wirsbo as I hav"nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment onthe wirsbo as I hav"nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment on the wirsbo as I hav'nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment on the wirsbo as I hav'nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

> I'm planning on installing pex under floor

> staple up in plates for my bathroom. My qestion

> is how does Safelink pex compare to Wirsbo pex?

> What are the pros and cons of each? Thanks in

> advance for all replys.



I can only comment on the wirsbo as I hav'nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment on the wirsbo as I hav'nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment on the wirsbo as I hav'nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment on the wirsbo as I hav'nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment on the wirsbo as I hav'nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment on the wirsbo as I hav'nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment on the wirsbo as I hav'nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment on the wirsbo as I hav'nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

> I'm planning on installing pex under floor

> staple up in plates for my bathroom. My qestion

> is how does Safelink pex compare to Wirsbo pex?

> What are the pros and cons of each? Thanks in

> advance for all replys.



I can only comment on the wirsbo as I hav'nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment on the wirsbo as I hav'nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment on the wirsbo as I hav'nt used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues Great company great support.

John

John Abbott

Pex

I can only comment on the wirsbo as I havn't used the other but I have several hundred thousand feet of wirsbo tubing installed with NO tubing issues great product, great company, great support.

John

ScottMP

I am not familar with safelink

Just be Sure it has an oxygen barrier to protect your boiler and system.

Scott

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Tom Meyer

PEX

I have no experience with Safelink, but Wirsbo has been around for a while and have great people to back their product.

Yup, use HePEX from Wirsbo. Whichever you decide on needs an oxygen barrier for a standard installation method.

Don't forget to gap the plates and use the right number of screws in the plates to make sure you don't get unwanted noises.

Tom Meyer
Senior Designer/Trainer
Precision Hydronics Corp
www.precisionhydronics.com

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Mijola

Pex underfloor? consider Onix by Watts Radiant

Your other option is to use 3/8" Onix by Watts Radiant. It's made of EPDM (327 year life expectancy)It can literally be bent in half shoved through a 1-3/4" hole in the joist space and fed appropriately through each opening. Much easier. The Onix is stapled directly to the subfloor allowing lot's of conduction heat to take place. No metal plates needed here! Installation in half the time. Onix allows up to 45 btu's sq ft. Insulate well. Don't forget to insulate the banded areas. Using pex underfloor? OK, it's been done in the past. Don't forget the heat transfer plates and fastners and only fix one side of the plate to the underside of the subfloor, leave the other side unfixed to allow for pex movement without squeeking under the floor. Also use a bead of caulking to secure the tubing in the plate. Onix doesn't make a sound... Good luck.

hr

Ray! Ray, Ray, Ray

45 BTUs /ft?

And use transfer plates with pex, fastened on only one side? I thought the transfer plates were for conduction transfer? Seems leaving them unfastened negates this "connection"?

You need to check out the ThermoFin at www.radiantengineering.com. Now that's a transfer plate with testing and documantation to back up the output claims. Although it will cost you more fasteners

Onix and ThermoFin, now there's a concept that make a lot of sense....:)

hot rod

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kevin coppinger_4

I agree w/ john...

wirsbo is a great product..tried and true.I have never heard of sakelink..Is there a big price difference? Watch the o2 barrier thing...Very Important! kpc

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kevin coppinger_4

safelink....

is the tubing that Mr. PEX is selling via the internet. Looks like an ok product from the info. that they are giving, but I have no field experience w/ it. What type of product support do they have? Make sure the heat loss is done right...kpc

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BOB_22

Thanks for all the input. I have a couple of more questions. One of the suggestions was to use 3/8" Onix. Does Onix emit more btus than other pex(Wirsbo for instance), or was that just an example. Is this Onix more flexable than the other pexes or is it the same. I have plenty of room, but I just curious.

Weezbo

Bob's job.

Bob, the question about pex led yo what is the deal about 3/8 ths ,well wirsbo,rehau and stadler all have a brand of pex specificaly rated for heat applications. it is especially designed to fine zone areas ....pex comes in other sizes as well,some are extremely tough to work with in comparison to smaller diameters. ..... watch out for spinning out lots of pipe on a single loop length,yeah they have this stuff in10,000 ft lengths buh it needs to be installed correctly. .... will have to say that most of the lessons of the past are: Watch out for Wild clamis and "features"take a look at the track record...there are hydronic systems working fine in canada and alaska for decades,many installed by the home owners. look for the safe link in a host of other pex tubing and you will probably conclude "well ,evidently there are all kinds of manufacturers ,so this stuff must all be pretty much the same." honestly...it isnt. i have heard of safe link...and cannot say that it interests me at this momment......if it has an o barrier pex a comes in 3/8th" 1/2" 3/4" 1" you probably have a product that people will buy. if you do the tubing work on your home...it is wise to install pipe that the fittings may be found by at least your local plumber.call around in your area ask plumbing whole salers do you carry wirsbo,rehau,stadler,safe link. see...there is the real answer....

BOB_22

pex

Thanks for all the info from everyone. I have had enough questions answered to feel confident to start my poject. I know to use an oxegen barrier, space the plates, and pick a tested product(wirsbo). My bathroom only sits over five or six bays of roughly eleven feet each. So I should come way under 200'of pex run. One last question. What is the btu output of both 1/2" and 3/8" pex so I can match the size to my heat load? When drilling the holes through the joists, should they be at the rim end or at the inside end?

Steve Bergstrom

Safelink??????

Hi Bob
I asked about Safelink here on the wall about 7 or 8 months back. I only got two responses and they where both on the positive side.
Call 1 800 7163406 to see if there is a supplier near you.
Good Luck
Steve

TomasLenman

Mr PEX Tubing

Hi,

If you wonder about my tubing - go to the source - myself.

Since I have been in the PEX business since 1971, I don't think you need to wonder about quality.
Check www.misterpex.com
or www.lkpex.se

Or read below.

Mr PEX® tubing key benefits
Mr PEX® tubing is crosslinked using peroxide crosslinking, a so called PEX-a process. By means of
heat, a peroxide mixed into the PE raw material is split into radicals. These radicals react with the PE
polymer chain and absorb hydrogen atoms to become inert. The polymer chains now becomes radicals.
They, in turn, become inert by joining together - forming crosslinks.
As mentioned, the peroxide is split by means of heat. That means that the tubing material needs to be
quite hot for the reaction described above to take place. It must be well over the crystalline melting
point temperature of around 270°F. The material must also be correctly shaped (must have its tubing
form) while the crosslinking takes place inside the polymer melt. After crosslinking has taken place, the
material is cooled down and the crystals are formed around the crosslinking points, reinforcing these
areas. These principles are valid for all PEX-a processes.
For other crosslinking methods like radiation crosslinking (PEX-c) and Silane crosslinking (PEX-b) the
crosslinking takes place at temperatures well below the crystalline melting point. For these methods,
when tubing is heated over the melting point, there will be a loss of crystals when the material is cooled
down again. The crosslinks will partially disturb the formation of previously existing crystals. So there
will be a loss of strength after this reheating - which is not the case for PEX-a tubing.
PEX-a is crosslinked while melted, and as described above, this will result in a lowered crystallinity.
Typically, a lower crystallinity means a lower strength. Therefore, the raw material utilized in traditional
PEX-a processes need to have a quite high density (which is practically the same as high crystallinity).
Typical raw material density is at least 0.950 kg/m3, and this results in density of around 0.939 kg/m3
after crosslinking. This is approximately the minimum density required in order to meet the ASTM F
876/877 strength requirements.
Radiation and Silane crosslinked tubing have densities that are approximately the same as the raw
material they are produced of - around 0.940 to 0.941 kg/m3. This is approximately the required minimum
for them to meet the ASTM PEX standards. Since density is directly related to stiffness (or flexibility)
we note that Radiation and Silane tubing are slightly stiffer than traditional PEX-a processes
(their density os approximately 0.002 kg/m3 higher - and this makes up a clearly noticeable difference.
The Mr PEX™ Tubing process starts with a raw material with a density of around 0.940 kg/m3 and the
final product has a density of around 0.930 kg/m3!! This is considerably less than other PEX process,
and results in a very flexible tubing. How is it possible that a material with this low density still exceeds
the ASTM requirements for PEX? The reason is that inventors of this process has succeeded to align
most molecular chains AROUND the tubing circumference! Traditional extrusion processes does not
provide any orientation of molecules, but their orientation are at random. By having the molecules
aligned around the tubing they are ready to absorb the stress caused by inside pressure. So in spite of
lower density this tubing can actually resist a higher inside pressure than traditional PEX tubing! At the
same time, since few molecules are stretched along the tubing, the flexibility is even better than what is
explained by the density alone! Welcome to test the pressure resistance. Just hook up our tubing in
series with a competitor's tube and increase the pressure until one of them bursts. It will not be the
Mr PEX™ Tubing.
Another major difference is the homogeneity. Traditional PEX-a processes have raw materials with high
density and high molecular weight making the polymer flow characteristics quite poor. The material is
mainly pushed through the extruders and raw material particles are just melted together. The flow is
very little stirred during the extrusion. Not so in the Mr PEX-a process. The material is thoroughly
worked, the original raw material particles are thoroughly blended, and even stretched out to orient the
molecules around the tubing. The result is excellent homogeneity, antioxidants well disbursed, and
better overall properties. Check homogeneity by holding tubing samples towards a bright light. Turn
slowly and look. You will notice the difference!

Best regards,
Tomas Lenman - Mr PEX

Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes

Good Stuff

We've been using Thomas' PEX tubing for a couple of years now. I was originally a bit suspicious of his claims of better flexibility; saw him at the trade shows with his slinky model on the display table.

But then a friend of mine started using it and recommended it to me, so I bought a couple of rolls from him and liked the way it went down. Now that they have most sizes available, that's all I use.

We use 3/8" for Thermalboard jobs and 3/4" and 1" for primary piping.

And if you ever call the company office, Thomas is the one who picks up. He occasionally sounds overworked, but he's always patient, polite and informative.

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BOB_22

pex choices

That thread from Mr. Pex is sort of lost on a non-pro like myself. What do the pros make of all the details. This topic sounds like a good leaping off point for Dan's new area of equipment analogy.

Weezbo

The first time:)

the first time that i saw the Mr. pex i thought cool:) another good pex tubing. the reason i am uninterested is that the availability of the product here fob as it were is like nil. the poly therms product poly comfort and poly dianmic is equally unavailable right now today i am finishing a promise to myself and am finally laying 3/8th' s rehau and hepex in my home...i like colours because it is easier to identify.:) so on i go undaunted . if i had some mr.pex it sounds like i would use it. however none here savey?

Mark Eatherton1

Been there, done that...

don't EVER want to do it again. A former employer of mine sold the 3/8" Onyx and plates. Had to use mallets and sledges to seat the hose in the track. It worked, but I'd never do it again...

ME

BOB_22

How is Onix different from other pex such as Wirsbo? Is it just the flexability or are there other advantages? When drilling holes in the joists, should they be at the rim end or the inside end. Which are the best plates to use and why? Thanks again

Boilerpro_3

Onix is not P

> How is Onix different from other pex such as

> Wirsbo? Is it just the flexability or are there

> other advantages? When drilling holes in the

> joists, should they be at the rim end or the

> inside end. Which are the best plates to use and

> why? Thanks again

Boilerpro_3

Onix is not Pex

It is EPDM hose. It can be tied into knots, flattened, and just about anything else you can think of and it will just bounce back into its orignial shape. Much, much, much easier to work with, and with it, plates are not used since it can be attached directly to the bottom of the subfloor. The tubing collapses slightly when installed providing a larger heat transfer area and good heat transfer.

Boilerpro

leo g_92

so tomas,

you are saying that all PEX-A is not created equally? i thought that, as we have a few brands of pex-a that we use, and there did seem to be a difference in their supplness.

thanx for that info, very interesting!

leo g

Earthfire

Why no plates?

Wouldn't plates lower the loop temp requirement? Seem to me plates can be beneficial no matter what kind of pipe you are using. now before anybody gets exited I'm not talking about using extruded plates, but the original sheetmetal plates with rubber hose.