Boiler Pics, \"Usefull\" Advice Wanted

Climate Creator

Updated Pics

Here are some new pics after the Z-Flex was re-done. And the pump replaced.

I really appreciate all the input!

Thanks,
Rich

kevin coppinger_4

let me ask....

if you were replacing an old gravity boiler was the existing chimney lined or unlined? Especially when the new hi eff. biasi went in? kpc

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jerry scharf

10 diameters

Scott,

I'm sure someone else will give a better link than this, but http://www.taco-hvac.com/uploads/Product_PDF/88.pdf is a suction diffuser, and it's description is a device that allows you to avoid the 10 diameter straight pipe situation.

I know this is not where I came across it, but this at least mentions the requirement.

I'm guessing that they want laminar flow into the suction so you get the most out of the impeller design.

I'm sure others will do a much better job of explaining this.

jerry

Climate Creator

Unlined

Before and after, but the chimney should be able to make recos. I was originally going to direct vent this boiler then at the last minute we (the client, & Myself) decided to go it in the chimney. It has a 5/6 draft in the breech, and 2 over the fire, everything seems fine.

What are your concerns? If you could tell me?

Thanks,
Rich

Kal Row

my two cents...

Pri-pump: the 110v hot lead to the primary pump - should be run from both the boiler's control AND the system control if you are using something like a tekmar 361 (pri/sec/mix/setback), this way, you always guarantee adequate protective flow through the “boy-lah”

pri/sec/closey-spaced-t’s:
--closely-spaced: less than 4 pipe diameters of pipe you are teeing off from and 6 diameters on either side of the tees,
--the injection pipes have to be 1 pipe diameter smaller (anti-ghost-flow)
--you also have to inject 18” downward from primary to secondary, (anti-ghost-flow – we pump down from hot to cold – if the boiler loop is lower, then, the cooler secondary water will drop through the injection circuit like a rock) (the only caveat with the 18” drop is that you need a Spirovent on the secondary also – you can uses one of the smaller ones)

see e21.pdf and e22.pdf on the tekmar website (pri/sec rules)
http://www.tekmarcontrols.com/literature.html


as for pumps with check valves – I like the Grundfos better, since the check valves are on the discharge side where is doesn’t affect NetPositiveSuctionHead (important on a 190+ primary) and it’s readily accessible , (nevertheless you still get better gpm from an 007ifc than a 007 with a separate flow check – that’s why, while the Grundfos equiv to the 007 is the 15-42 but to the 007ifc it’s the 15-58fc – it’s all in the “curves” – “that’s what she said…” )

now according to ziggi (hydronicpros.com) there are never enough check valves – the same single pipe convection, that keeps, pipes running over a basement and up the side of a house, from freezing, will move all the heat from your boiler to the top of each loop in short order – (it’s simple - cold water molecules move slower and thus more together, making the local water parcel, denser, and thus heavier) – that’s why you never run water across and then down the outside wall of a house – then, the cooled water has no where to go and freezes

exp-tank – far enough so that it don’t run hot, (cant remember where that notion came from – maybe because the air on the other side of the diaphragm will heat up changing the whole pressure point – just a guess) but not so far, that there is flow resistance, in the pipe to the supposed point, of zero pressure change (use cv tables) i use 1/2 cooper by 2-3ft but you can go longer I’m sure

you also seem to have a few voltaic cells in your system, ie you keep going from black pipe to brass/copper and back, I just put two dielectric unions at the boiler and never go back

kevin coppinger_4

I would drop in a stainless...

steel liner at some point soon. What is the stack temp? If you get down below the 400f range you could start to damage the chimney and have mortar falling out....masonary chimneys are nice to look at but not good for todays moisture rich flue gases.kpc

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Mark Hunt

IFC's


We tried the Taco pumps with the IFC. Three zone system.

On start-up, all three SCREAMED!

Took the cartridge out. I just happened to push on the FC and it snapped in place. Put it back together and it was silent. Did the same to the other two and the problem went away. Factory people did not seat the FC.

Of course when I called the vendor and asked about this, I was told that I was the ONLY one that had this problem. Rep said the same.

Two days later I get a call from the vendor asking how I fixed the problem. Seems I WASN'T the only one.

I haven't had any problems with the checking devices on either the Taco or the Grundfos.

I will say this. Pay close attention to the warning on the Taco's. You are NOT supposed to operate them without the FC. So if something happens to the FC and you do not have a replacement available, the pump is useless. Has to do with the UL listing. Without the FC, the amp draw COULD be high enough so that the wire could over heat.

I have to say, I think the Grundfos design is better.

JMHO

Mark H

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Art Pittaway

Impeller deflection

Small circulators don't have quite the problems a big pump does, bigger the flow, bigger the problem. I saw a 5 HP B&G 1531 (close coupled, end suction, 3" suction)installed with a close elbow on the suction. It deflected the shaft far enough that it ground into the bearing casing and left a neat pile of grindings. 1/2"+ deflection in 4 - 5" overhang of 1/2" steel shaft! School maintenance complained the seals only lasted a few years. Inline pumps have the suction designed to throw the water "back" into the eye of the impeller, but an elbow is only about flow and it throws the mass of the water against one side of the impeller. If you go to the B&G school house they will give lots of info on the evils of improper piping. Hope this helps. Art

Arthur

What I mean

Is that there seems to a lot of comment about xtanks failing on this and other forums. An expansion should always be installed so the hot water from the heating system does npt get into the tank.
I can only conclude 1)The tanks you use in the US are poor quality or 2)Faulty installation.ie allowing hot water into the tanks.
Take your pick.

Robert O'Connor_7

DRIPS

You promised. Relief & BFP drips, did ya forget already?? boc

Climate Creator

As Promised

Here is the finished Boiler, All "Drips" accounted for I call them vents but you say tomAto I say tomOtto. Thanks to all for your support, I am also going to attach a thank you note the customer wrote to me. Been Busy sorry to bring back this old post but I didnt want to leave it unfinished so to speak.

Rich