CO training and Manufacturers

Steve Ebels

That technology

That technology is available right now. Weishaupt produces burners that monitor and adjust themselves according to flue gas sensors. I'm sure that Riello probably has the capability to do the same. The problem is that consumers don't see the need therefore won't pay the price. Who's going to spend $2,500 for a residential size burner?

Mark Hunt

I do not feel


manufacturers need to get involved.

I know they do.

I can't understand why they are so resistant.

You know where I stand John.

Mark H

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Mark Hunt

Lots of good ideas


but let's hear what manufacturers have to say.

If they have nothing more to say, then let this post die.

Mark H

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Unknown

In response

Moved this thread to bottom so it wouldn't get lost. Thanks.

Glenn

Unknown

In Response

to Mark and all of the people that have been involved in this post, I offer the following words. As Manager of Training at Burnham Hydronics along with Ron Beck, we conduct numerous seminars regarding Boiler Installation Issues, Gas Boiler Troubleshooting and other installation related subjects. Perhaps some or many of you have had the opportunity to attend these. In every single one of these seminars we stress at length the important issues to pay proper attention to at the time of installation. These would follow along with the statements in our I&O manuals discussing proper gas pipe sizing, gas pressures, chimneys and draft, combustion air requirements, confined spaces and the such. We also discuss the use of test equipment such as manometers and combustion test equipment.

During these meetings, Ron and i usually ask for a show of hands as to who is equipped to test and who is not. Unfortunately, the latter seems to be the majority in most cases. As Mark has stated, testing really is an important part of the installation. The dangers we are discussing here are invisible dangers that can't be seen, heard, smelled or tasted. If all of the proper precautions are taken during the installation, then the byproducts of combustion should be at norms. There are external conditions that can drastically affect this however. Abnormally tight buildings with exhaust fans is one of these. Adverse draft conditions due to building constuction or location is another.

What we are reading about here is just a taste of where we will all be in the very near future. As industry standards begin to change, we will begin to see more and more appliances equipped with devices and sensors to constantly monitor for adverse conditions. If we are all on board with this technology, then troubleshooting these possible error messages will be second nature because we will all be equipped with the instruments to do so. As this technology progresses, it is very important that we all try to keep on top of the ball as to paying real close attention to what is in the I&O manuals and to take in all of the seminars we can. We've come a long way but have a long way to go.

The other issue related to "state of the art" equipment is that of affordability. As many of you have proven here and at other sights, your ability to sell is above and beyond. But the majority of jobs you may be quoting may not be able to handle that type of budget. As a manufacturer, we support the efforts of Mark and others as to CO awareness. Testing is a must! All of our equipment meets and exceeds the current industry standards and if installed properly, it will perform above and beyond standards in the field. But we all have to understand that there are certainly external things that can affect this. That is why combustion testing is so important.

Glenn Stanton

Burnham Hydronics

Mark Hunt

Thanks Glenn


Burnham is a great company.

Mark H

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Murph'_4

kudos to Glenn

Thanks for being here!!



Murph'

Jim Davis

Manufacturers Warranty

Actually A.O. Smith will not warranty their commercial waters heaters unless and Combustion test is turned in with the paperwork. Unfortunately most people fake the numbers.

Jim Davis

Lots of Stuff!!

Wow does this fill up when I am out of town teaching.
Glenn we all appreciate your participation and by the way I was a Burnham distributor in Ohio for 16 years, Gas, Oil, Residential and Commercial.
A few years ago I was asked to do a session at the American Association of Code Enforcement national meeting in Cincinnati. Only about 6 of the 400+ attending the meeting came. They said it didn't have to do with there job because safety is not their responsibility, they just wanted the information for their own safety. Also Ohio Code officials ask me to submit my CO course for approved continuing education but I received a letter from the state saying that carbon monoxide was not in the scope of code officials job description. My list of experiences with code officials is sizeable and not pretty.
When I hear comments like we can't prevent flues from plugging or combustion air from being block I say why not?
The list of people and groups that have not been to my training and think I am crazy is massive. I think Mark E. was certainly a doubting Thomas before hand. But as many have seen, I recommend that only the trained and certified people ever do anything that we teach! It is those who are not trained that scare me. I agree rules have to change but it has to start at the top but those changes must come from the experiences of the bottom which are from the real world. I think this site is working its way to that goal which is great! I just hope it isn't another 25 years.
Test-Diagnose-Verify-Document-Repair-Test-Diagnose-Verify-Document. Repeat as many times as necessary.

Unknown

Sort of like

those things we were taught about driving a car.

Scan-Identify-Predict-Determine-Execute over and over. It has worked for me all these years and has saved my butt on a couple of occasions. I think we all realize the same frustrations in trying to get the word out. Looking forward to the class.

Glenn

Jim Davis

Wait until someone gets injured

My favorite in Cincy was-Wait until someone gets hurt before making correction or we want you to get the manufacturers permission to test.

Mad Dog

Nope...on my mom's computer

yeah hope ya can make it. Mad Dog

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