How do you attract great help?

Rich_3

We are a small, yet growing company. We need to hire a great technician. We provide full medical coverage, pay very well based on experience, and will soon have our retirement program in place. We invest in training. I work side-by-side with the tech's and don't ask for more than I would do. So the question is where to find the next technician. We do plumbing, heating, a/c, and water conditioning. Flat-rate pricing. Personal days and holidays too...Again--how do you find the right people??

PS. I appreciate all responses.

Sincerely,

Richard Fox

David Sutton_3

You grow them

Start yourself a aprentice program, teach them hands on, send them to school,show them that you want them to succeed. do the little things for them, like lunch or a hot cup of coffee. these are the things my frist boss did for me... and he is still always on my mind( if it wernt for his kids taking over i would still be with him), they say that there is no such thing as loyalty anymore show them its not true... be honest with them that this will continue if..... they show they are advancing if not you need to know when to say i'm sorry but this is not working out... put out the carrot, show that you wont pull it away and you'll have some great techs.. good luck

this i tell you for its what i wanted and i got.....

thank you Vinny for the trade you helped me learn..David

Big Ed

Like a Woman

If your pay scale is $30-$35 a hour plus the bennies and have a good reputation you can pick and choose . Respect and appreciation will help keep them..

clammy

help

that's a great question there is no one young getting into the trades and the ones that are have no respect i can still remenber carring tools ladders and setting up for the mech. when i was young i still do it for my elders it's called respect i find alot of young guys have bad attuides and want big bucks and are unable to do there jobs where i work we ran ads for 6 months conducted testing and sent them to school only to find them sleeping in a van in the sun that's a great question i would beat them down except they would cry and quit where is the old days where you worked as ateam not as some guy looking to slack off they seem to know everything and of course there call backs for mis diagnosed service calls i truely don't know what in store for the trades all mexican workers that all right they work they show up they don't complain and once befriended are more helpfull then some of these snot nose step jumping kids sorry to throw them all into one basket but around here 20 bucks an hour to know nothing seem to be the norm and this catch phrase can't see it from my housewill never set right with me pride and quality is really hard to find at any price sorry for the venting peace

neilc

you guys hear the joke about

planting tulips
yup,
... two lips at 20/hr
sorry that should have been posted at a gardening site

Rocky

Great Help

I have looked for more than 10 years for great, qualified help. Someone who wants to hustle, is inquisitive, and not afraid to get with the program. I have hired employees from other companies, people from want ads who say they've done heating work etc. The only employees I've found who really perform like you want, are the ones you train yourself. I think you are doing it right by working side by side with your young help. That way, they see what exactly it is you see. I learned from an old gentleman of 70 years old. He had been doing heating work for close to 45 years. I don't care how late it was, if we were just about done with a job and he saw one small drip somewhere, fix it right then. Learned craftsmanship and attention to detail. Learned how to query a customer to get to the root of the problem. Learned how to listen to the machinery and pay attention to little things that make the biggest differences. One on one is the only way to go for the employee you want to keep for the long haul. Others can fill in and help out until you get to that point. I get in a hurry and want immediate help. Unfortunately, months of training and nurturing are necessary to yield the great employees, but it is worth it. Good luck.
Rocky

neilc

attention to detail ...
that is the answer,
learned it freshmen auto shop class ,Rodger Ludlowe,1980
thanx Hayes
neilc

Mark Eatherton1

Finding good help isn't hard....

Keeping good help is!

I've been real fortunate for the people I have around me. For the most part, we raised our own. And we're still looking. Looking for ways to make them better, and make them richer. Do this and word will get out about who knows what they're doing, is willing to pay for it and charge it.

I agree with the need for good, fresh new blood in this trade. I also agree with getting involved at the high school level. In fact I'm all for going to the grade schools. Might as well set an impression early in life...

Nah, finding good help IS getting harder, but it can be done. The hardest part is keeping them good, for good.

I thank my guys on a regular basis.

Happy New Year all!

ME

RichW

techs

I learned the most from two guys who deserved a lot better than they got. Jim Nawrot and Ed Clark. They both worked 35 + years in the field before they officially began teaching. They learned electricity by building Heath Kits and fantastic model railroads. I never caught the railroad bug- just their desire to keep learning. Their main motto was "BE A GOOD LISTENER" to the customer and the equipment. They taught us how to enlist the customers' help in diagnosing a tough problem. "After all, they are living with the equipment". I've been making my own test and monitoring equipment with "PIC chips" for the last 8 years.

How do you MAKE good techs? Practice what you preach and don't be afraid to say, "I don't know......but I'll find the answer. Thanks Jim and Ed.

P.S. Where can I go to get $30 per hr. plus benefits?

Mark Hunt

Great help


I was at a vendor golf tournament several years ago and I was talking it up with a bunch of local contractors (Rich! You were there!)

This discussion came up.

Right now there is a local company with HUGE billboards advertising for help. $25.00/hr and all the bennies you can eat!

You can't "attract" top quality people exclusively. You are going to get dollar chasers.

I would suggest that you come up with an aptitude test. It's more important than an application. You need to know what a person DOESN'T know more than what they DO know.

What they DON'T know will cost you LOTS of money and, more importantly, customers.

Anoher "Markism", "NO AMOUNT OF MONEY WILL EVER MOTIVATE SOMEONE THAT DOESN'T "GIVE A S*** TO GIVE A S***"

The point I made at the golf outting was that the "competition" in the coming years will not be for work, it will be for WORKERS!!!

If your company does things right, no comprimise, you will have to train others to your standards. Remember, the competition didn't!

Our industry has allowed itself to become one step above "pallet repair person". People "end up" here, they do not seek it out.

There are "Diamonds in the rough". Those are the ones you want. Show them the truth and LET them do it ALAWAYS. NO COMPRIMISE! Soon you will have the best that the industry has to offer. Charge more than the competition, NO COMPRIMISE. You got the best!

Look, do not try to "steal" the other guys workers, you will probably not like what you get. Differentiate yourself from the "competition", otherwise you are the same.

Money is only part of an equation.

Appeal to those that care about what they do.

Mark H

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Big Ed

jobs

union tapers make $35 a hour ,union electricains $45 ,LI cop $40 and up up , Crane oiler $40 ..... Bus driver $25 ,

Mad Dog

#I answer$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

time off, and interesting work, Mad Dog

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Bruce_6

I myself

used to be a money chaser. Money is still an issue, but respect is more important. The way you treat your employees, maybe a little thank you for a job well done when you hand them a paycheck, maybe a small bonus for projects that were done ontime, and within budget.

what is important to me is the way we are treated as an employee, after all, you can't be successful without good help.

training your own employee is good, but takes YEARS to accomplish. If you don't have the time to train someone new, then you NEED to look for someone. Mostly its in the interview. ask specific questions to find out what they know, or more importantly, what they don't know.
does the potential employee just answer all your questions, or do they ask you about your company?

an interview is a two way street. You need to know about them, and if they can become an asset to your company. and the employee needs to know about you and your company.

would you hire someone "on the spot", or do you make the employee wait 10 - 20 days before you call, only to say that you found someone better! I have personally interviewed with companies that NEVER call back, and some that call after a few days , and then again others that hire "on the spot".

there are a lot of great people out there currently looking for the right oppertunity to come along.

Keep looking, they are there waiting for the oppertunity to work for you. Show them you are serious, and show a little respect, and you will find the best help!

Steve Eayrs

I would like to find some good experienced help, but

its almost impossible to find someone in a small town, if you are one fo the few companies in town, and have trained most workers to date myself. Most that work for me have been here for years. Some have left to be my competition and currently one of my main guys planning to move to Florida.

The pay is good for this area. You can make more, if you want to live in the city somewhere, or work out of town. We have health and a few other benifits. I don't take on a whole lot of work outside of this area, so everyone can go home nights.
I need a State of Alaska certified Journeyman plumber. Already have enough apprentices and don't have time to train someone else right now. Don't have to know all about boilers, controls, etc. but it would help. Just want a good honest worker who still knows he has some things to learn.
We do nicer boiler systems, most of them radiant, and new contruction plumbing and ventilation.

I guess this is more than a comment, but a notice in case someone is interested..... E-mail me.


Steve

jp_3

hey clammy ,what are you talking about.

Clammy, you give all trades people a bad name. The response to the question you gave was the most ridiculous thing I ever read. Next time you write something try using a period, a comma, or maybe a capital just for fun. You make us look like the ignorant bluecollar **** people think we are. Smarten up clammy, or just stop writing.

steve_26

good employees

There is no shortage for work out here. I wish that could be said for for skilled help. Wow what a change 10yrs can make...Training seems to be the best option,We need to Promote our industry Better,We need to make it more attractive to younger people. Dot Com. Era took alot of potential people away from the trades to chase the fast Buck..Now that is gone there are alot of people out of work
with no professional skills.....Pay your help well,treat with respect,spend on training#1,Let them know what their contribution to yor Co. means.
Our Co. is only as good as our employees....That goes for the office as well. Good luck and good hunting.
If your in the Boston area we're hireing...Steve

Mike T., Swampeast MO

I wish I could give a real answer.

Great employees don't just "happen", they're made.

Of course $$ have much to do with it, as do benefits, but the attitude of the employer is just as (if not more) important than $$s and benefits.

Great employers don't just "happen" either--they are made.

To me, the most important thing for an employer to do is to set proper rules. Many MUST be strict and UNVARYING among the employees--nothing disgruntles a group of workers more than seeing some who routinely break the rules without fear of consequence.

Other rules really fall under the heading of "expectations." Rarely are two individuals both perfectly suited to the exact same tasks. Expectations should be tailored to individual employees.

Actually attracting great employees? REALLY hard. The truly great ones are already in positions that they truly care about and just offering a few more $$s or more benefits won't begin to pull them away. The great ones have pride in their work and loyalty to their employers...

It's all about human nature.

I'd say the best thing to do is find young, bright, enthusiastic people and treat them fairly. Of course this takes a lot of investment on your part--not only in training but in patience. NEVER forget that exhuberance of youth when you're trying to find your "place" in the world. Also NEVER forget that nearly all will tend to wander somewhat and NOTHING you can do will stop it.

Ken C.

I'm in my fourth year as a plumber and am close to getting my journeyman's license. I've worked for a few companies in this time. The most important piece of advice I can give to employers who want to attract loyal employees is to treat your employees with respect. I worked for one company where the owners treated their employees like peons, and morale suffered as a result.

Bruce_6

mike

I think you are slightly worng on finding great employees.

looking at it from the employee side............

there are some truly GREAT people out there that are unhappy in their present situation. I am one of them! but being that I am truly loyal, I have not been "activly" looking, but rather waiting for an oppertunity to come my way! I know it will happen, because it will be the right career move for me.

some employers just don't get it, and never will. some just have no respect for their workers. Money IS NOT everything, but it certainly does help! IF you don't have respect for me and my abilities, then I don't want to work for you, I don't care how much money you offer!

Don't take this the worng way Mike, I am only stating what I see from this side of the fence. Yes I have been on the other side, and I do see from your prospective. There are some people that just want to put in their 8 hours and go home. They want their pay on friday afternoon, and don't give a damn about anything, or anyone else. I have seen my share of them, but don't try to say that all the good, (or great) employees don't exist, or are already taken, because they are not!

keep looking, and if you don't see anyone, then you are obviously not looking in the right place. great employees CAN happen, and sometimes will walk right on in! I have seen it happen, and have done it myself!

Steve Eayrs

Besides an interview with the prospective employee.....

and asking a lot of questions, I have been considering making sure the prospective employee has a chance to talk to my other employee's and see how well they like it here.


I know the work atmosphere makes a big difference to all of us, and we all like to be treated with respect. Maybe that would help some to fill the need here. Of course there first has to be someone who shows some interest in becoming a better plumber. I've met a few who don't think they have any room for improvement, which kind of goes against my grain.



Steve

Larry Weingarten

looking in the right place?

Dare I suggest looking for OLDER employees? That would be the guy who already knows a lot; perhaps he's even retired but needing or wanting part time work. He/she won't need babysitting, will show up on time and wouldn't even think of slowing down before the end of the day. Maybe one of us would like the relative calm of just being somebody else's employee someday. Just a thought.

Boiler Guy

New Blood

There are a lot of very valid points in this thread. RESPECT and recognition produce long term loyalty.

I have been on both sides of the fence and I definitely enjoy the technical side more. I have been employed with my current Company 5.5 yrs but associated with the owner in various functions for 20 plus. He made me an offer I could have easily rejected. I asked him to put it in writing. He did and we haven't looked back. Someone once said "A note made in the faintest ink is always better than the best of memory".

Hiring a person is like aquiring a very expensive asset. You would not do that without negociating a contract and completing some extensive research.
Realistic expectations (on both parts) is extremely important. I have been solicited and offered more incentives BUT I like what I do, I like the freedom to create challenges for myself and "our Company" (because I am a part thereof) AND I know I have the FULL UNWAVERING SUPPORT of my employer. That is what makes me loyal.

There will always be rough times and tense situations. This industry is not day care! How each of us as individuals react is what sets us apart from the rest. If both parties act and treat each other responsibly the bond of loyalty will only be strengthened.

Unfortunately today too many of the younger generation have grown up (??) in the instant gratification era. If they can't have what they want when they want it, attitude takes over. Then, no one wins.
None of us grew up or learned about life overnight. We all had to work for our place in society in some shape or form. It is human nature to Approach our proffessional endevours with optimism. To be successful each of us needs to receive encouragement and respect from our coaches, mentors,and peers to grow. In this fast paced world that caring for each other is sometimes lost.
Good consciencious people cannot be bought or trained. They thrive on challenge, success and reward. They are inherently proud of their accomplishments, knowing their skills and achievments will be recognized by their peers and employers now and in the future.
I apologize for this long disertation, but when looking for a potential employee, look for someone who holds their head high, looks you in the eye, is not afraid to defend their rationale, is preapared to get down in the mud with you to pick up the pipe wrench and crank the hell out of the world around them ........ just because they can!

Bruce_6

well stated

and I agree completely!!

thank you!

Mark Eatherton1

Geeze,

If you're looking for correct grammer, punctuation and perfection at the key board, You're in the WRONG place.

Clammy, Write like you'd talk. I'm listening.

ME

ScottMP

employee

We all talk about the great tools we buy and how it was expensive but we're really glad we made the investment.

Why then do some companys think of a raise as a necessary evil.

Your employees make your business, with out them you are rowing with one oar. I use to worry about training my guys because then they would leave and become my compition. Dan gave me the best advice " If you don't train them, they don't learn anything and stay and work for you ". How true !

My new years resolution is to make more profit for the company and return more to the employees. You have to treat people like people with respect.

I took my guys to the Buderus open house last fall. Cost me alot to rent a van and pay everybody for the day. It will will make thousands for the company.

Scott

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hr

More thoughts

Try these links to columns Ellen wrote.

http://www.pmmag.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,2379,3796,00.html

http://www.pmmag.com/CDA/ArticleInformation/features/BNP__Features__Item/0,2379,3778,00.html

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Wethead7

employees

Find the best you can. Send they out with your other Tech's. Have the other tech's teach and report on the new ones. Trade tech's and the new guys in a couple of weeks.
If they are not working out fire them. I know that sounds bad, but if they can not or will not provide the customer service. The best thing is finding sombody who will.

Training of tech's is a never ending project. I have found that training helps keep tech's. Several of our longer term tech's are and have direct knowledge of the bottom line. How we plan to get there and what each part of the company needs to do.

We use an employment contract. Employees are prohibitted from compeating (or employment in a compeating fim) for several years after leaving us.

I have learn this from Hot Rod's Misses is that you treat your employees better than you want to be treated. Since we started using this program No Eployee has left the firm for other jobs. The few that have retired come in often. Several have return to work with us after retirement. These guys sometimes help with the busy times or fill-in for somebody on vaction. Our employees know that I will not ask them to do anything I would not do myself.

Good luck

Mike

clammy

writting like public school

to j.pryon sorry i can't spell or use a key board or even capitals and as for makin us look bad sorry buddy i' ve been in the field for over 20 years doin everything from multi zone roof tops to 60 ton splits heating from 100,btu to 4 million on p/s systems before it became the craz been doin steam taught to me by a old timer i don't know what time zone you come from but as the coop say the words i say are true young guys today and yes even when i was coming up don't show the interest in craftmanship or respect for there elders .they don't even think of doing things like setting up tools and cords or cleanin out a truck or even sweeping up at a job unless you tell them no common sense why because i don't get paid enough great excuse and most have no work ecthics and truely just want the money.i work harder then most 20 year olds and stay with all my jobs until completion i never leave a promblem for the next guy like many out there i don't sugar candy coat anything even to the custermers just tellem like it is i leave all the a## kissin and candy coatin to everybody else sorry i don't use the best grammar or even spell right that me as for finding good help good luck some people can sleep good even through they committed one of the deadly sin sloatism peace clammy ps thanks for the support mark happy new year

Nate Weber

Oh and i'm sure your entire generation was the epitome of respect. You guys must have been something else, hauling tools, hoisting ladders, set up and pull down, never taking a break all while telling your elders "I am so honored to be here and to learn this trade, I would work for pennies just for the opportunity. Your elders must have taken their coffee breaks while bragging about who had the most hard working and respectful trainee. And now my generation comes along and hell, we are going to destroy everything out there .

My points are:
1. I'm sure your elders felt the same about you.
2. It takes a whole lot of time nowadays to learn what a good job look like. I'm sure in your simpler era, it was all common sense.
3. I'm sure when all the damn kids of my generation grow old, we will be complaining about all the damn youngsters who do not want to work a honest days work.
4. The old days were always better than the current days. The same challenges still exist though.
5. I sure hope you will take this post with it's intended humor.

Take it easy

Nate

Mike T., Swampeast MO

So how does an employer attract someone not actively looking but not particularly pleased with their present position?

What sort of things made you unhappy with your job?

The original poster seems to be having problems yet also seems to be offering things many would consider make a "good" employer.

Respecting your employees is one of the most important things you can do as an employer, but experience has taught me that you usually have to keep respect from turning into friendship. Get too friendly and some will take advantage, some will become jealous and the employer finds himself letting some get by with things he would never allow in others.

Something made you deem yourself a "great" employee. Is it as simple as good upbringing and ethics? Is it from previously working with employers that you thought were "great"? Other things?

[Deleted User]

mike, dont take this wrong,

its not an attack, i dont know anything about your company which must be really fine to have long term employees, but, i would never sign a contract that forbids me to work in my chosen field of endeavor if i left your employ.

Robby P

Interesting changes......

Seems ironic that years ago most companies were owned and or operated by people that came up through the ranks. Todays businesses seem to be run by people with management degrees and little experience. 20 yrs. ago you had to really look for a job where they offered a start to a young person. Today a company can't seem to buy a quality employee. Have they "managed" themselves out of the labor market? I think it's great that the labor side of the equation is now driving the value of it's members.
Remember when service people were told they were a necessary evil and wouldn't exist if they could sell oil without us??????
Oil prices have been kept low over the years on the backs of the service people to a great degree. Management has been forced to re-evaluate it's employees worth due to labor shortages.

The tide comes and goes, as does the money, The real answer is in the quality (labor and managements).

As with all products, availability drives the market price. It's good to be a valuable commodity again!!!
Enjoy it while it lasts gents!!!!!

Robby Perkins

Mad Dog

you got my support too clammy!!!! you are a straight shooter

like I am. Not politically-correct. Be yourself, you keep the Wall the Vibrant , no bll-s%%^* place it is. God Bless. Mad Dog

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Mad Dog

Did you guy clean up after yourselves??????

Mad Dog

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Bruce_6

Mike

I don't deem myself a "great" employee. I have lots to learn, but am very loyal. I call in if I am going to be 5 minutes late, I give notice when I need a day off, stay late when a job can be finished and not have to go back in the AM, etc.

how do you seperate your company from others? Just because that is how everyone else is doing it, doesn't mean that you should too!

how you treat your employees is a huge issue with me, more than money. do you tell you guys "thanks for a great job" when you hand them their paycheck? a little thank you can go a lot further than a $50.00 christmas bonus. (actually 46.18 after taxes were taken out). I am not saying that money isn't an issue, because it is, but is not the most important thing on my list

Rich seems like he has a very nice company to work for, I would be interested in talking to him. I don't know how he treats his employees. why does he work side by side with his guys? is he afraid they couldn't do the same job without him there? or does he just like getting out of the office and picking up a wrench? It would be hard to know without talking to him, but I suspect his company has had its share of bad employees. those that say they can do the job, but when they get into the feild, can't perfrom the duties assumed when hired.

respect is a two way street, treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. "great" employees are out there, some are grown from the training you have provided them. some are self taught and learned the hard way.

As you stated Mike, you can't mix friends and business. I myslef am not looking to become "friends" with my employer, there has to be some kind of line.

Keep your eyes open, there are lots of "great" employees out here looking for you.

SeattleNick_3

Cut these words and they would bleed;

I remembered that line during this thread and here is the rest:

"The language of the street is always strong. What can describe the folly and emptiness of scolding like the word jawing? I feel too the force of the double negative, though clean contrary to our grammar rules. And I confess to some pleasure from the stinging rhetoric of a rattling oath in the mouth of truckmen and teamsters. How laconic and brisk it is by the side of a page of the North American Review. Cut these words and they would bleed; they are vascular and alive; they walk and run. Moreover they who speak them have this elegancy, that they do not trip in their speech. It is a shower of bullets, whilst Cambridge men and Yale men correct themselves and begin again at every half sentence." — Ralph Waldo Emerson, The Language of the Street

Happy New Year!

Nick-

Blue Collar **** by day,
Christ-Only-Knows by night

Mad Dog

Emerson ahhhh!!!!!!!

excellent quote man, just finished Reading Seabiscuit and his jock, Red Pollard knew Emerson inside and out on cue.......Thinking of some of my great lit classes back when I wuz a skoller...hee hee. Mad Dog

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Mad Dog

Anyone can attract great help - even if

they are misleading them - which a lot of employers do. Its keeping the people and trying to keep them happy. I agree with some of the other posts about how the vast majority of generation xer's have bad work ethic, attitudes, and no common sense. Yes, it has changed with the last few generations. I started to see it when I was apprentice in the mid eighties. at least half of our apprenticeship class were useless. Today that number is more like 85%. So, you have to key on getting those motivated, respectful, go getter 15%ers. And, it still ain't easy. Be careful how generous you are with new employees because most will take it for granted. Even when you sit them down and explain what it really costs to run the business, and that your not getting rich off of them - they still don't believe you - most that is. When I started Triple Crown I wanted to treat people better than I HAD EVER been treated. I went overboard and it got taken for granted. Now, when I hire someone I am very cautious. I haven't done it yet, but I can fully understand why some companies make you sign a non-compete clause .i.e, if you quit here you cannot go to work for the competetion or hang out your won shingle for x amount of time. You spend years training a guy, sending him on weekend seminars (all paid for)sending them to classes and treating them very well, and there comes the day they aren't happy blah blah. From time to time you have to sit them down and tell them: YOU! didn't start the company...I've been in your position before so you can't bull*(&( me about the long hours or how hard the job was...you are an important part of the team, but We WILL GO On if you left tomorrow. Being a boss is not easy and sometimes I think it is even more difficult as a young boss. The older guys can resent you and the younger guys because you aren't much older than they are. All I can add is this: If you can find people that listen, show up on time, have a decent attitude, and appear to be loyal, you have to try to work with them and their little quirks and idiosyncrasies. Nobody's perfect. For me, Loyalty and respect rule the day. Mad Dog


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Mad Dog

I think he means just in that town Gerry

not the whole county or anything. MD

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[Deleted User]

i would like to hear from a lawyer on this..

which supercedes,,the contact that states a person can't make a living upon leaving, or the states right to work law?

Earthfire

clammy

speaks with heart and thruth!!!!