Soldering copper tubing in tight clearances

Ken Peck

I am looking for a better way to solder copper tubing when I am working on fittings
that are within 1.0" to 2.0" of a finished wall, flooring or floor joists.
The solder being used is a tin/silver solder whose solidus temperature is 430'F and
liquidus temperature is 475'F. The tube and fitting are prepped with a flux prior to soldering.
An air/propane TurboTorch with the appropriate sized tips to solder 0.5" to 1.25"
copper tubing is currently being used. TurboTorch says the flame temperature is 1700'F.

There are oxy/acetylene and oxy/propane torch kits that offer C-shaped tips with multiple orifices which envelope the
tube and fitting. Smith Equipment used to make both the acetylene and propane units but now only
offer the acetylene unit.
This tip configuration seems like it would greatly reduce the heat that gets passed
to the surrounding objects, namely the walls, floors, floor joists,.... The flame temperatures are
much higher for these torch units. Does one have to be concerned about having too much heat passed
too quickly on the copper tube and fitting? Does the temperature inside the solder cup become
uniform or does the tube end tend to be cooler than the inside wall of the fitting? I've been told
that it takes only 8 seconds for 0.5" copper tube and fitting to come to a brazing temperature of 1300'F
and 16 seconds for a 0.75" copper tube and fitting. Thus the heating time to achieve silver solder
temperatures are probably less than half of the time needed for brazing.

Has anyone had good success in using these C-shaped tips for silver soldering? I am interested in
knowing if this is a good way to go. There must be a better way than what I am doing now.

Big Ed

Silver Solder

I use a oxy/acetylene for silver solder on ac line set . I use it over a turbo as to have less heat transfer which could cause damage to other components.I also use heat sinks .

For regular solder I like a softer nonlead solder Like "Sterling " or "Bridget"...Soft like a 50/50.Give one of these a try.. I also use small solder blankets to protect surrounding areas. Home depot sells the old flexable asbestos types........Also turbo makes a curved shield which attaches to the tip...

Hay have you tried the new Turbo tips with the built in ligher for acetylene......GREAT!!!

[Deleted User]

when i'm in a tight spot,

i use a ridgid electric solder gun..works great..rems also has one..keeps from setting the house on fire too.

J.C.A._3

Maybe a bit \"off subject\" but.....

Have you considered the ProPress? I KNOW !

I've only found a couple of places where it didn't fit well, and with some planning, there is a way to make it work.

I would like to know what the insurance industry thinks about it.


No fire MUST be a GOOD thing, in tight spaces. Chris

steve_38

depending on

the sizing of the copper pipes i have different size turbo
tips, and the roll of solder that i use is taramit a little expensive compare to most rolls but it's worth it.
and if i'm sweating a joint that's real close to the wall or even insulation i carry a little water bottle and spray the area before i sweat, depending on the severity of it.

Cosmo_2

Scary moments

Those of us who have been soldering copper for most of our lives (my old man showed me how when I was 10) are very good at knowing exactly how close we can solder without burning things up. I have always used acetylene, and currently have the Turbotorch tip with the integral lighter (mentioned in previous post), and have learned how to take advantage of the way the flame bends around the copper when the flame is held at the magic sweet spot (tip of blue flame barely touching surface of pipe). I can think of many times that I have soldered even 1/2" away from a thermostat wire and never scorched the insulation! Of course a piece of tin, and/or the special heat resistant blankets are great for tight spots. But using an electric soldering iron, or the Ridgid Propress system has the benefit of no open flame. Use caution with the electric solder iron however, just because there is no flame does not mean that sucker does not get hot!!!!!


Cosmo

TLS_7

A few years back....

I worked for a company that had a Ridged Electric gun. What a great little tool! Used it in many tight spots especilly in ceilings that were full of cables, insulation, conduit etc. We didnt have to shut down the fire alarms every day. (A word of caution, smoking flux can set off alarms with out the flame). If I was in buisness for my self, this tool would be high up on my must have list. Not to mention you "burn" the customers fuel, not yours.

Mark Eatherton1

Hey Tommy!

Good to see your words. How big of an extension cord is required to power these babies up? How big of a breaker?

How much time does it take to do say a 1" soft soldered joint?

For it to end up on your list of "must have" tools, I have to respect that.

ME

[Deleted User]

A roll of Aluminum foil

Whenever I am in a tight spot I always have 4 things. 1) Turbo torch with build in ignitor, so the thing goes off as soon as I release it. 2) a 5 pound fire extinguisher,in case it really gets away from me. 3)Spray bottle with water, to spray things down before I solder, and after to cool things off. 4) Aluminum foil, just like you find in the kitchen. Rip yourself off a piece about 4-6 inches square and curve it around the fitting about 1 inch away. It does an amazing job of reflecting the heat back into the fitting. You can solder quicker, and get in and out before burning the place down.

DaveC

Ridgid

I have had a Ridgid electric iron for over five years now, think it was 600.00 or 700.00 bucks. I love it, 1/2" and 3/4" is faster than a turbo torch, 1" is ok, they say it will do 2" I'm too old to wait that long. Reeds looks good to!

GEO_3

flame retardant

There was a spray on flame retardant on the shelves a few years back that worked pretty well. You could put it on paper and use it as a heat shield if you had to. I think it was sold under the name Nochar possibly made by Virginia Chem. Don't see it around any more but it worked great.

Jamie Hall

char...

just a gentle note... in some very old houses, it is worth remembering that the ignition temperature of the wood may be as low as 300 F. A soldered joint, particularly a larger one, can easily retain enough heat to light off the wood, even a few inches away, with some time delay (can be an hour or so). So be very careful...

Which is partly why my 'cottage' is all compression fittings on the water lines on new or repair work. The steam heat is, of course, threaded iron -- Steam Rules!

eioie1

Soldering in tight places

If you are having trouble with heat transferring to other material or burning things up, try one of these. Hot Damn works on valves and really keeps the heat away from running down the pipe or you can wet rags and wrap them around what ever you are trying to protect or lay them over the surrounding materials, but make sure the rag are thick and they are fairly saturated, but not dripping wet unless you are in a area that you don't mine getting wet. Pex pipe or any crimp joint is a good idea or using Tec Tight or Shark Bite fitting are great. They have a 200 psi rating and a guarantee for 50 years.