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new boiler old system
kevin coppinger_4
Member Posts: 2,124
show dimention "A" really well does it? nothing even suggesting the 24"...kpc
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Comments
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New Boiler old system
we recently replaced our boiler to a single pipe steam system and have had uneven heating water hammer and a lot of hissing from air vents. the near boiler pipe had to be down sized to 2in from 3in. How do I find some one who knows what they are doing to balance out my system. any help???? Milwaukee WI. area0 -
Hmmm,no reply from Steamhead or Noel.Must be getting close to winter.Let me try to help and then the experts can say
differently.
1-Where is the heating contractor that install the boiler,and why have they not address your concern?
Why did they change from a 3inch to a 2 inch main? Depending
on the type of distribution system you have,that may have hurt you when it comes to velocity issue.
Hissing noise usally means the air is not being remove from the mains quick enough,either from no main vent or not enough.
There are several issue that most likely need to be address with your install,near boiler piping,foaming,proper venting.
No luck on finding anyone that can do the job properly?
Then go to books and more,buy lost art of steam heating
and dead mens steam school,then you can find out how to
do it yourself.
Now if you need someone personally,Steamhead has been know to travel if the money right,you can't go wrong with Frank
unless you drive bye a store that has old phones,then you better pull up a chair you might be there a while.
Happy heating.
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You might want to check the ph of the water in the boiler and keep it somewhat neutral, old timers used to add vinegar or even a shot of pickle juice to bring the acidity up.0 -
have you Pictures?
will go a long way in addressing the problem....look at the owners manual discription of the near boiler piping this will also help....kpc0 -
here are some pics0 -
one more pic0 -
I see several problems
1. The water is dirty. Look at the sight glass, it ain't pretty. Flush that boiler out! Dirty water helps produce wet steam.
2. Header does not appear to be high enough above water line. Most boiler makers, including Weil-McLain, specify a minimum of 24 inches between the highest possible waterline and the header. This helps keep water from getting into the header. If you can get more than 24 inches of height between the waterline and header, it helps even more. You can download the manual for your boiler at www.weil-mclain.com .
3. Header pipe size is reduced at the steam main takeoff instead of at the elbow that drops into the equalizer. This traps water in the header.
Bottom line- you need to flush the boiler out and repipe the header.
BTW Don- just got a 5302 with a number tag showing a vintage Baltimore exchange name!
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I dont know what a header or equalizer is, does, or looks like????0 -
Here is the piping diagram for your boiler
The horizontal pipes marked "H" are the header, and they must both be the same size. The header's job is to separate steam from any water that gets up that far. But it won't work right if the pipes "H" are reduced in the wrong place, or if it's not high enough above the waterline.
The vertical pipe marked "J" is the equalizer. It equalizes the pressure between the steam and return openings of the boiler.
A "Hartford Loop" brings the returning water into the equalizer at a point near the bottom of the sight glass. This makes sure the water doesn't drain from the boiler if a return line breaks.
This is covered in detail in Dan's book "The Lost Art of Steam Heating". If you don't have it, order it on the Books and More page of this site.
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Consulting0 -
Take a look at my post below....
"Some boiler installs that will make you cringe". Yours is awfully close to Number 3. Same boiler model and same piping configuration. It also is not too far from Milwaukee (just north of Rochelle, IL) so it may have been installed by the same contractor. Definitely need some cleaning and that header has to go. A drop header would be a nice easy change here with a great improvement in performance.... see on the same post "new life" for a drop header example.
Boilerpro0 -
also, use the second tapping
off the top of the boiler,,by using just one tapping, the velocity has doubled...steamhead and bp are correct..your going to have to repipe your near boiler piping.0 -
That was on the previous page
and here it is!
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sorry, Im not up on these terms, what do you mean by tapping. I have the contractor coming on friday would like to be able to explain how it should be done. thank you so much every one for your input.0 -
A \"tapping\"
is a hole in the boiler with threads which accept threaded pipe. The threads in the hole are made using a tool called a "tap" from which the term "tapping" comes.
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What is Gerry refering to when he says to use the second tapping to reduce the velocity ??? Is it mainly just the header that needs to be redone and moved higher along with a good flush of the boiler???0 -
Those Weil-McLains
have two steam tappings (outlets). On the smaller ones W-M says it's OK to use just one. However, if you use both, each only carries half the boiler's output of steam, and it moves more slowly thru the risers. This makes it more difficult for the steam to carry water along with it.
Where possible, I also like to use both steam tappings. Here's an example on a Columbia gas boiler , where the use of both tappings is required. The "drop header" is not required, but it also helps keep water out of the steam. This boiler feeds a one-pipe system.
The second pic is a good example of a single-tapping header. This one's on an older oil Burnham that we re-piped. It feeds a Hoffman Vapor system with a Differential Loop. We didn't "drop" this one, but did make it one size larger than required. This also helps keep the steam dry.
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Consulting0 -
contractors at my house now I have mentioned the header still waiting to see what they say.0 -
Just shout if you have questions
That header has to handle a bunch of water.
Noel0 -
They will repipe the header and flush the boiler. thank you Steamhead0 -
new pics, repairs finished0 -
one more pic0 -
That looks much better
bet it runs much better too!
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Cool
Nice to see customers get what that deserve and need!!0 -
Air vent continue to hiss ???????????0 -
Which
vents are hissing?
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all radiator vents continue to hiss0 -
Does your system
have vents at the ends of the steam mains? If so, what make & model? How long are the mains, and what pipe size are they?
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I can only find one its a Dole #5. the system worked fine with the old Boiler. I cant remember what kind it was but the company is still in busines but does not make boilers any more.0 -
Sounds like it's too small
Measure the length and diameter of your steam mains, and post the information here. We can tell you what vents you need.
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Steamhead
Could they have the preasure up to high ?
Also with all the header problems no one mentioned the distance between the hartford loop and the equaliser piping, that should be a close nipple.
Will a larger main steam vent stop the hissing ?
Scott
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you can do that?
Cool- I've never seen the main risers loop back down
Gary
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this is the latest craze!
the drop header club! Everyone and their brother is doing this! kpc0 -
I want to join
the club
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The pipe that contains the vent is 15 ft long. diameter I'm not sure on every thing is covered with asbestos that has been encapsuleated. I'm not sure which pipe is the main. Is there a web site that can explain the basics to me? or a book. I have ordered a pocket full of steam.0 -
the radiator vents are dole vari vents0 -
If it's that short
it's probably 2-inch pipe. The usual insulation thickness was 1 inch. You can measure the outside diameter of the insulation (WITHOUT DISTURBING IT), subtract 2 inches, and that's the outside diameter of the pipe.
Is that the only steam main you have?
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the pipe would be 3in. please define what exactly a steam main is????? sorry, I feel like such a dumb ****. I can take some pics if that would help.0 -
Steam Main
This is the pipe that goes from the network of piping around the boiler, feeding smaller pipes that lead to radiators. At the end of the main, you will usually find a "drip" which goes down from the main into a return line run near (or sometimes under) the floor.
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I measure 80 ft. of main with the one #5 vent at the end. why would this work for the old boiler and not the new one?0 -
do I need more main vents????0
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