changing from vapor steam system over to water

D Bidwell

would like to hear about the cons of changing over from steam vapor system to new boiler with hot water. The radiators appear to be tied all the way through at the top and bottom.

DanHolohan

Why

would you want to do this?

Jamie Hall

Good Lord!

Indeed, as Dan says -- why on earth would you want to do that? Aside from the hideous expense of changing all the valves and traps, you will have a whole new set of controls and pumps and so on and so on. Find a good steam heating man (there are plenty here -- try Find a Contractor) and replace the boiler, if need be, and sit back and enjoy!

Steamhead

Vapor systems

are some of the best out there. Changing to hot water has a whole list of pitfalls- it's much better to fix what you have. Go to the Find a Contractor page of this site to find a good steam man near you. If you're in the Baltimore area, contact me!

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D Bidwell

vapor system

in a nutshell efficiency
around here steam is only used in the large residential houses or some old churches. I would not have to heat the water up so high with hot water. And can get higher efficiency. What would be the best I could get with steam 78%.

Thank you for the replies

Tony Conner

There Have Been...

... a number of discussions here about "efficiency", and just what it means and how it's calculated. Combustion efficiency, boiler efficiency, and system efficiency are NOT the same thing. A while ago, I challenged boiler manufacturers to explain just exactly how the AFUE numbers are determined. Only one company responded, and they didn't really answer the question. The silence was pretty much deafening. One thing that you are NOT comparing with the AFUE numbers is actual boiler efficiency. Boiler (and for that matter, forced air unit) efficiency is a pretty simple calculation: net heat out divided by heat input X 100. This is a "big picture" number, and encompasses every loss and inefficiency. Other tests, like combustion are needed to determine WHERE the losses are, and what improvements can be made. Nobody uses the REAL method of calculating efficiency, because it'll show a far lower number than what everyone else publishes using the other way. But it's a number that has much more basis in reality than the numbers currently tossed around.

Having said all of this, I believe the boiler manufacturers are required by law to use the existing (AFUE) method of calculating efficiency. However, out here in the real world, you will NEVER, EVER get anywhere near the AFUE efficiency value when compared to a proper boiler (or forced air furnace) efficiency calculation.

It is very, very likely that if your existing steam boiler and heating system are in good working order, that it will take many (as in double digit) years to pay back the investment on changing your heating system over to hot water. The biggest bang for your buck is almost always to reduce the heat loss out of your house.

Steamhead

The answers are

in a steam or Vapor system, there is much less water to heat up. I have never been convinced that you use more energy boiling a small amount of water than heating a larger amount of water to 160 degrees or so.

Also, a modern steam boiler will have an annual efficiency (AFUE) of at least 80%, and I've seen some as high as 86%. It's true that there are hot-water boilers with higher claimed efficiencies, but some of these have had serious reliability problems.

And don't forget that with any system, the boiler's efficiency is only part of the picture. Once the boiler has boiled the water, its job is done- from there, the system must move the heat to the radiators. This is where many steam systems suffer, but any problems here are very easy to fix.

It's easier and less expensive to fix your Vapor system than to try to convert it. When running properly, it will equal the comfort and approach the efficiency of hot-water (assuming similar boilers). And you've come to the right place for help.

So what kind of Vapor system is this? Broomell? Hoffman? Moline? Trane?

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chuck shaw

Dont just think

of burner efficency, think system efficency. The system includes everything you take into account when doing a heat loss. Windows, doors, building insulation and pipe insulation just to name a few. You could probally very easily get a steam boiler with an 80-85% AFUE. If it is installed by someone who knows what he is doing, and your steam mains are well insulated, I think you would be pleasantly suprised by your fuel bills next season. The cost of converting from steam to hot water, would probally be farily high, and to gain a few effiency points at the burner, would it be worth the added expense. What would be your payback time, and where would your level of comfort be?

I hope this helps, doesn't just confuse the issue

Chuck Shaw

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