Windows Error (again)

Mike T., Swampeast MO · July 2003

Make certain you update your Windows operating system (download from Microsoft). They've found yet another error where "someone can take full control of your computer".

This one must be a biggie as Microsoft actually announced it via CNN when I was watching at lunch.

Microsoft servers seem busy, but I was able to download successfully after 3 tries.

Steve Ebels · July 2003

What version

Does the error pertain to?

Dan_8 · July 2003

Nearly all of them

There appear to be two separate issues. The first one affects NT4, Win2k, WinXP and the new 2003 server product. You can view the MS advisory here:

http://www.microsoft.com/security/security_bulletins/ms03-026.asp

There's yet another issue that affects everything from Win98 onward (is anyone still running 95 or 3.x?). You can view that advisory here:

http://www.microsoft.com/security/security_bulletins/ms03-023.asp

They appear to be pretty serious if you're just running a Windows box hanging off the internet with no intermediate protection. If you have a firewall or other filtering device between you and the internet it's likely not as urgent but should still be patched.

Also, if you have any interest, there's a thread on a site that has a fair amount of chat about both issues. It's a fairly anti MS site in many ways though so be prepared for some hearty MS bashing if you do choose to read.

http://slashdot.org/articles/03/07/16/2218216.shtml?tid=126&tid=172

Steamhead · July 2003

Have you noticed

how most security problems seem to be found in Microsoft products?

When was the last time we heard about security issues in Netscape, WordPerfect or something else Microsoft doesn't sell?

Would we tolerate this kind of lax quality control in boilers or other equipment we sell and install? NO!

So why do we put up with it from Microsoft?

Thanks for the word, Swampy and Dan. I've never thought too highly of Microsoft, and I just keep getting more justification for this. With their low level of quality control, Microsoft deserves all the bashing it gets.

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Bud_14 · July 2003

Good Point!

Last I heard there were approx. 7 thousand bugs in windows xp alone, (I no longer have it / went to 2000 pro.)

Who's worse...BG for letting a product out the door knowing this or MD for allowing it in all the computers he sends out all over the world.

All this frustration, yet without them, where would we be today, I say thank you Bill! Because he is the main reason we are all on the wall today...

Dan_8 · July 2003

Microsoft?

Why Microsoft? I wish I knew... In my experience we put up with them because people demand their products, as buggy as they may be. I *always* suggest non-MS products to my clients for lots of good reasons. Sometimes they accept, sometimes not.

There are security issues with all sorts of programs and I think that while MS probably has more of them than others they also have the widest installed base and the media are jumping up and down about them these days so we hear more about them. One thing that was worrisome about this particular issue is that there is some concern that MS hid it until a deal with the Department of Homeland security was in the bag then released it.

Anyway, if anybody has any interest there's a really funny and at least somewhat informative article about computers in general and Microsoft vs. alternatives. It's non-technical and well worth the time to read it in my opinion (if for no other reason than he compares one of the operating systems to a Milwaukee Hole Hawg).

http://www.spack.org/index.cgi/InTheBeginningWasTheCommandLine

Steamhead · July 2003

Good one, Dan

I can't agree that Microsoft was responsible for all of us being here. The only thing Gates & Company do well is marketing, which is good for Microsoft but questionable for users.

If you think of all the technically superior operating systems that never really caught on in the mainstream-

BeOS (still around and now ported to Intel machines)

IBM's OS/2 "Warp" (which was so superior to then-current versions of Windows that if IBM had only hired some real marketing people we'd be Warping today)

NeXT (which Apple bought and incorporated some of it into the Mac OS)

as well as applications, which we talked about in a previous thread, you see how Microsoft has concentrated on ruthlessly stamping out competition rather than delivering a high-quality product. And it is precisely this lack of competition that forces people to put up with Microsoft's problems.

Fortunately we still have some choices left. If you're tired of the "patch of the day" and "patch of the patch" routines from Redmond, go get a copy of Corel WordPerfect Suite or Lotus SmartSuite (both of which can handle Microsoft file formats, I believe) and download the latest free version of Netscape or Mozilla.

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Jamie Hall · July 2003

bugs and security holes

In some ways I agree with everyone... but in many ways I do not. In 'real' life (when I'm not enjoying myself playing with antique vapour steam systems) I'm a full-time computer programmer. And I know just how hard it is to kill bugs. The more power built into a program, the more bugs there will be -- and the trouble is, the programmer CAN'T find them all (really). The bugs will show up when real people use the program in ways which are permitted, but not foreseen.

As to why Microsoft (and particularly Explorer and Outlook) gets attacked by folks, I see two reasons: first, it is popular and 'cool' to attack Microsoft. Second, if a product has 95% of the market, and another product has 5%, and you want to get noticed, which do you go for? Netscape is not much better -- if any -- in the underlying engine, just much less popular.

I am not particularly defending Microsoft, by the way -- I do all my work in using a programming engine called dBASE which I regard as much superior (for what I do -- database programming) to any other product out there...

The best defense -- regardless of product: a good firewall (there are a bunch of them); good practices -- and whatever you are running, check for updates not less than once a week and preferably once a day!

Steamhead · July 2003

Jamie, were you

using dBASE when it was published by Ashton-Tate (now that's going back a few years ;-) ! )?

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Bryan_5 · July 2003

Steamhead,
Is there a topic you dont know more about than the rest of us?

Bryan

Steamhead · July 2003

Of Course

but we were lucky in this thread ;-)

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Bryan_5 · July 2003

Ok let me just give it one try in stumping you. Who is the leader of this years Tour de France? Thats an easy one so my next question would be who is second?
Bryan

Dan_8 · July 2003

Free Software

Mozilla is absolutely great. Once you've had tabbed browsing you'll never go back (of course MS will probably put it into IE for the next go-round).

If you want to try a complete "whole shooting match" different operating system download Knoppix (http://www.knoppix.net/). It's a fully functional, tons of software included, CD release of Linux. It boots and runs from CD and memory alone. That means it doesn't touch your hard drive at all so it's safe to play with (at least I've never seen reports to the contrary or had bad experiences). Amazing what that guy has fit onto one little disk.

Steamhead · July 2003

I haven't really followed it

but I think Lance Armstrong is still in the lead. Very inspiring. Couldn't tell you whos second though.

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Dan_8 · July 2003

Ashton-Tate...

Didn't they also make Multi-Mate (the word processor)?

My uncle (who got me into computers) thought that Multi-Mate was the be-all and end-all in the early '80s. That made me a Multi-Mate user in a land of Word Perfect users when I hit college. It was like a subtle form of leprosy ;')

Steamhead · July 2003

You might be right, Dan

I remember the big battle between WordStar and WordPerfect too!

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Bryan_5 · July 2003

Steamhead,
You are correct in Lance Armstrong. As far as second goes that would be Jan Ulrich. The Tour is a lot like steam heat. Not a lot of people know or understand it but the ones that do are very passionate about it. Have a great day
Bryan

Dan_8 · July 2003

Battle of the network word processors

I remember that battle raging but I was hunkered down with my Multi-Mate and happily ignoring it. By the time I gave up on Multi-Mate I think that WordPerfect had pretty much won.

Now that I think back on it I'm pretty sure I never learned to use WordPerfect. I went on to a Desktop Publisher called Ventura (I had nearly forgotten about that thing) and probably skipped out to MS-Word after that.

Bryan_5 · July 2003

Dan,
I would love to give that a try, I have tried Linux a few times and have had nothing but trouble. Usually the bigest problem I have had is with the Video card configuration. In a perfect world I would love to be able to dual boot. That is easier said then done. Its been about year since I tried last. do you know if they have made any improvments in this area?
Bryan

Dan_8 · July 2003

Knoppix

Knoppix is amazing.

I've been running Linux (and various Unices before that) for years now and I don't think that I've ever seen anything as smooth and easy as this. I've tried it in several machines including a couple of different laptops and it has auto-detected everything that I could think of. It came up in graphics mode, the sound and network worked. I haven't run it in a machine that needed to dial-up yet but I've heard it deals with that quite nicely too.

The list of software that it includes is extensive as well. If you've ever wanted to try OpenOffice or Mozilla or Konqueror or lord knows what it's probably on there. And the best part is that it never touches your hard disks so it won't fiddle with what you currently have installed.

Anyway, I don't want to go on endlessly but if you want or need any more info please let me know, I'm pretty jazzed about this thing.

Bryan_5 · July 2003

Dan,
Thanks for the info. I am downloading it as we speak. Do I only need the one ISO file? The are 2 other small 1 k files listed with the ISO. When it gets done saving do I just write the file as is to the CD? This sounds like exactly what I have been looking for. Thank you very much for the info.
Bryan

Dan_8 · July 2003

The small files

are MD5 sums. There's an algorithm that looks at the original file and generates a characteristic number based on certain aspects of the file. You run the same program on your end once you've downloaded the file and compare the numbers to see if the file is correct after the download. It's especially handy if you've had to make the download in several chunks or over an unreliable line. You don't need to bother with it if you don't want to but it can keep you from burning coasters. A quick web rummage pulled up this link that has a couple of programs to perform the comparison:

http://www.linuxiso.org/viewdoc.php/verifyiso.html

When you get the ISO file downloaded you need to burn it as an image, not just burn the file onto the disk as you might with regular files. I'm not sure what software you use but with Nero you go into the file menu and choose 'Burn Image', select the ISO file and go from there. Most likely the other common CD burning programs have a similar option.

Mike T., Swampeast MO · July 2003

As a programmer since DOS 1.1

I can honestly say that software "bugs" will ALWAYS occur.

Most are the result of unexpected user-entered values and unexpected user action.

Once CPU speed and available memory grew to reasonable levels (tiny by today's standards) it became fairly easy to verify user-entered values BEFORE any critical error could occur. With text-based user interfaces it was also relatively easy to anticipate and control the sequence of user action. Old menu-driven DOS programs that enjoyed heavy use seem to have evolved into the most reliable of all software.

Graphic interfaces and data "portability" have made things EVER more difficult for the programmer. Less efficient but more forgiving "variant variables" came into being and wildly increasing CPU speeds made their inefficiency unnoticed by the user. Graphic, event-driven interfaces make it truly impossible to anticipate the next action of a user. While (with good programming) you can pretty-well control what the user can do within an INDIVIDUAL program, the programmer is at the absolute mercy of the operating system regarding other processes that are running at the same time.

The good thing is that instead of spending countless hours developing machine-language routines to make simple actions appear "instant" programmers can utilize this past work via operating systems that long ago incorporated these routines into their "core."

The bad thing is that programmers have essentially lost their ability to "control" the computer. Microsoft has done everything in their power to wrestle true "control" from the programmer and will continue to do this kicking and screaming all the way. While I get really mad at Microsoft sometimes for "forcing" me to do things "their way" I do use many of their products and am generally pleased with their performance--once they get out the initial BIG bugs at least--sort of like GM vehicles. The worst thing I seem to notice about Microsoft is that competitive applications always seem on the loosing end of a power struggle caused by the operating systems' "desire" to use only Microsoft products even if not installed or available.

Bryan_5 · July 2003

Dan,
Thanks for the info. I will let you know how it turns out when it get it downloaded. This sounds exactly what I have been looking for.
Bryan

Windows Error (again)

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