munchkin vs. viessmsnn

heatboy

There are more than a few...........

good/great boilers on the market. The Munchkin being one. I offer Viessmann, almost exclusively, for one reason. They have the most comprehensive line of equipment available. That, plus the quality of the line is unsurpassed by anyone. It doesn't matter what the project is, there is at least one boiler from Viessmann that will fit the bill. Does it mean that there are not other manufacturers' boilers that wouldn't work in that project? Of course not. Do I have to work harder to offer Viessmann over everything else? Undoubtedly. But that's my choice.

Mark, having met you at Wetstock, I know you are a guy who cares about what he does every bit as I do. You have nothing to worry about from me. LikeI said, there is no ego involved here.

Warm Regards,

hb



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Mad Dog

No! Scott I have not seen or \"put my hands on\" the Vitodens...bu

I installed a few Viessman when I worked for another contractor.....I'll say it AGAIN!!!!! She is a fine machine...I'm not against putting in any European - or for that matter any country's product ( as long as they are a democratized non communist, Muslim fundamenatlist country) If my customer wants it...and I have no problems with it - it goes in. However!!!!! I will repeat: The analogy was a very bad one indeed....c'mon, man....the Yugo was an absolute piece of rubbish.....asserting that the little munchachee is in that same rubbish pile is unfair, arrogant, and just plain wrong. Look enough with all this "....I respect you blah blah..." This all supposed to be one big debate session right?????? Some of us rub each other the wrong way - so what!!!! It is all for the better. Heated (pun intended) debate lets the cream rise to the top and lets the chips fall where they may. Don't get defensive when The Munckin folks come back swingin'. As I have said before, The Germans have contributed great things to the world - that cannot be denied...but lets be honest here....they are equally as arrogant..ask me got plenty of relatives over there. That is also one of the things that I love about them...they're cocky as hell but they deliver - you gotta laugh at 'em, but respect 'em. It is obvious that this cocksure attitude can carry over to the installers and that's fine, but don't expect the Munchachees to take it lying down. Things can get very heated here, but anyone of you that have met me , Murph, or The Great Mark Hunt know that we are "first in war...first in peace..let's go get a drink together" Paul Pollets, Scott and the heatboy knows their stuff and I do like the enthusiam for their product...just don't forget we all be different.....ahhhheyeght enough...enjoy the weekend boys. Mad Dog

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J.C.A.

Wow!

This thread has been both educational and enlightening . My only thought goes to the differences between "us" and the European customer/contractors .

We , are usually the ones to condenm a piece of equipment in most cases . In Europe , the equipment tester can (what we lovingly refer to as) "RED tag the equipment". The guy who tests /inspects isn't a "plumbing inspector" , but a combustion engineer . He can black ball your equipment for putting more crap in the air than necessary . These guys show up with white coats and latters ! Checks the chimney and the appliance !(can fail you for either one being out of line ). I think this is a huge difference . I also feel that this is one of the reasons that our countries manufacturers are looking east to find some answers .

I also feel that an educated customer is a good customer . They want to be able to do whatever possible to leave a nicer place for their children. Some can afford to go all the way , some WILL do what they can . Our job is to give them the options , and let them decide .

Can't add much more than that . I'm a puppy in this game. I was held back by only selling and installing oil equipment for 17+ years , and this gas fired equipment amazes me to no end . My goal is to learn as much about it as I can , and be able to CONFIDENTLY offer a wide range of product to my customers . Chris.

ross

Ahhhh, the memories!

Finally, a message string that feels like the old Wall! Granted, the discussions used to get out of hand and deteriorate into name calling, but I still miss the old days when this place was more like an old west bar and less like a high school dance. For those who need it, here's a little reenactment of what I mean:

Then:

"WHADDYA MEAN PEX IS BETTER THAN COPPER?!"

"YOU HEARD ME, YOU SHIFTLESS SKUNK!"

The table overturns as the two men start brawling. Onlookers try not to spill their drinks as they shout encouragement to their respective champions. The new missionary in town receives a black eye when he foolishly tries to intercede. The sheriff let's them wear each other down a little before pushing them outside and sending them home to sleep it off. The regular customers, still flush with excitement, go back to their drinks. As things start to settle down, a traveling peddler's wagon pulls up to the saloon. The sign on the wagon reads, "Professor Blau's Flat Rate Remedy Cures What Ails You"....


Now:

"You like Pumping Away?! ME TOO!!"

"Wow, that's freaky!"

"Don't you just love how it solves all your problems?"

"Yeah, it's pretty tight."

"Yeah, tight. Whatever."

"..."

The two kids stare at their feet in the awkward silence.

"So, you wanna make out?"

Jimmy Dunn

Bravo Chris!

> This thread has been both educational and

> enlightening . My only thought goes to the

> differences between "us" and the European

> customer/contractors .

>

> We , are usually the

> ones to condenm a piece of equipment in most

> cases . In Europe , the equipment tester can

> (what we lovingly refer to as) "RED tag the

> equipment". The guy who tests /inspects isn't a

> "plumbing inspector" , but a combustion engineer

> . He can black ball your equipment for putting

> more crap in the air than necessary . These guys

> show up with white coats and latters ! Checks the

> chimney and the appliance !(can fail you for

> either one being out of line ). I think this is a

> huge difference . I also feel that this is one of

> the reasons that our countries manufacturers are

> looking east to find some answers .

>

> I also

> feel that an educated customer is a good customer

> . They want to be able to do whatever possible to

> leave a nicer place for their children. Some can

> afford to go all the way , some WILL do what they

> can . Our job is to give them the options , and

> let them decide .

>

> Can't add much more than

> that . I'm a puppy in this game. I was held back

> by only selling and installing oil equipment for

> 17+ years , and this gas fired equipment amazes

> me to no end . My goal is to learn as much about

> it as I can , and be able to CONFIDENTLY offer a

> wide range of product to my customers . Chris.



I applaude you in you effort to get more education. Technology (and our business) had changed tremendously in the past few years. Sad to say, our Western mfg. market is now playing catch-up with our European neighbors. I have a contractor who got into the hydronic market about 5 years ago from doing soley fored air. Now, if he had he choice, he would do only hydronics.

As far as contractors in Europe, they are treated like craftsman. I am afraid in the states the contractor is looked apon in a much lesser light. I think it wouldn't hurt us to eat some humble pie and admit we need to re-look at our business and see how we can do it better. Isn't that what America was built on??


Jimmy Dunn
Able Distributors
www.abledistributors.com

Steve Minnich_1

Hey Jimmy

How yaa doin' pal?

Steve

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J.C.A.

Thanks Jimmy,

I understand the "pride" in America stance...but like my boss/friend Mr. Milne stated ...it's a global economy.

Because of the many offerings available to our customers, and the information available to them from the numerous cable and broadcast T.V. outlets , we have to give the customer the choice of the equipment that they see and hear about .

I'm the prime example of "education IS the answer". Like I said , been in the business for a while , but I'm just getting to "the other side" of the fuel industry . I need to learn as much as possible . Thank the good Lord I have a boss that believes in the same things I do .

I am like a virgin bride ! Tell me that this is the way , and I will think it is . (just don't let me "test the field" and find out that there are many other ways ) Fourtunately, I've found this space in the mean time , and I feel it has boosted my thought process and made me question quite a few calls on someone elses thoughts .
I like to think that we are always learning . We just happen to learn dumb things , and refuse to let them go, when in FACT we should be LISTENING and thinking more about the new things that we are taught .(THEN questioning them and TEACHING something the teller THOUGHT they knew!)

"The only thing we have to fear ...is fear itself" LEARN! Chris

Mark Hunt

Battle among the ranks

I feel the same as my partner MH does, We direct alot of homeowner's to this site. Most coast through here without posting,but are always watching. We pay money to have our company represented here. We do not want excellent equipment bashed here. Viessman is a great product, but so is the Munchkin. I am totally into maximum fuel savings and maximum comfort,but there is more than one piece of equipment to do it. Being in the service myself and facing the possibility of being sent to the big beach with no water, I would like nothing better than all of us using max eff. equipment and lessen our dependancy on foreign oil. Working in hydronic heating which only holds a small percentage of the american market place, its does not make sense to be talkin some serious smak amongst ourselves.