Broomell vapor system (need information)

Rick_5

Hi all,
I am a new homeowner with an old (circa 1918) gas/converted steam boiler. Before I call a heating contractor (Syracuse NY), I would like a little "education". The system is vaporstat controlled with a Broomell vapor system. It is piped as a two pipe system, with the exception that the rad's in the finished part of the basement are one pipe. The thermostat looks to be origonal (Honeywell) and actually has a windup eight day clock to "program" night and day temps(I'm not using this feature) .
The system heats well, is quiet, and all of the rads work , the only problem is, that the house gets pretty cold before the burner comes on then warms up nicely, then gets really cold again. Is there a way to even out the heat? Also, the water level for the boiler seems to be manual. Is there an "optimum" water level for the boiler? The water is 2/3rds of the way up the glass right now, and there are no lines marked on the glass. When the boiler is making steam, the water in the glass fluctuates up and down +- 1/2 inch.
Thanks in advance for any info.
RW

Steamhead

Broomell is covered in Dan's books

"The Lost Art of Steam Heating" and "The Lost Art of Steam Heating Companion". Both are available on the Books and More page of this site, are well-written and highly recommended.

Your temperature fluctuations are probably due to that old thermostat. They just weren't as accurate then as they are now. A new thermostat, even a basic one like the round Honeywell T87 series, can control room temperature without the wide temperature swings.

Typically the water level should not be over 1/2 in the sight glass. Depending on what type of low-water cutoff you have, you may be able to add an automatic feeder to it.

I don't get the part where the basement radiators are one-pipe. Is the boiler located in a pit, below those radiators?

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Rick_5

Thanks for the quick reply. The radiators in the finished part of the basement are on ledges, above the level of the boiler. Would the books be too technical for a layman? I really don't want to do the work myself, (the thermostat has more wires than I'm used to seeing in a thermostat). I do however, want to understand what's going on when I get a contractor in to look at the system.
Would it be a good idea to use some fine emory cloth to clean the contacts in the thermostat?

Steamhead

The books

are a good read, even if you never intend to lift a wrench in anger. And Dan offers a money-back guarantee.

Does the thermostat have three wires connected to it? If so, it's probably an old "Series 10" unit- an early attempt at increased sensitivity. If the thermostat cable at the boiler has only 2 wires connected, that's the problem. You'll have to get a new 2-wire thermostat, and connect it to the same 2 wires used on the boiler end.

If you're nervous, go to the Find a Contractor page of this site. Follow the instructions to locate someone in your area.

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Jamie Hall

yea verily

Steamhead (as usual) has it right -- Dan's books are an excellent read; detailed and yet clear. Do get them. Do also be prepared to find that not all contractors a) have the books, b) are really interested in vapor systems and c) understand or want to understand them -- so the more you know, the happier you will be!

Rick_5

Ok, I just ordered the book. None of the contractor's listed here are in my area. I'm just afraid of getting one that knows just enough to be dangerous. I have been following this board for a while, have learned a little, and I am impressed with this group of 'wetheads'.

keith

enjoy

the books, it seems more like you are having a conversation with a steam fitter than actually reading a book. You won't be disapointed. Ask your contractor some relative questions regarding the system. If you are comfortable with the way he handles himself you probably have the right guy. Good luck

Rick_5

thermostat

Ok, guys, here's one for ya.
Steamhead, I checked the thermostat to see if there's 3 wires, I found 5 wires! Any thoughts? (at least until the book gets here?)

Steamhead

Wow

that's a new one on me- unless the extra 2 wires drove a motor that wound up the clock- in which case (1) the key-winding feature is there as a back-up and (2) you have a museum piece there!

But which wires from the thermostat are connected at the boiler? Note that two wires are probably connected to a transformer, this was the power for the motor. These aren't what you're looking for. You want the ones that actually switch the burner on and off.

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Rick_5

pretty cool huh?

> that's a new one on me- unless the extra 2 wires

> drove a motor that wound up the clock- in which

> case (1) the key-winding feature is there as a

> back-up and (2) you have a museum piece

> there!

>

> But which wires from the thermostat are

> connected at the boiler? Note that two wires are

> probably connected to a transformer, this was the

> power for the motor. These aren't what you're

> looking for. You want the ones that actually

> switch the burner on and off.

>

> _A

> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=

> 157&Step=30"_To Learn More About This Contractor,

> Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A

> Contractor"_/A_

Rick_5

pretty cool huh?

And it WORKS !!! I blew the dust out of it, and placed a good recording thermometer near it, and found I'm now getting only a 2 degree swing. 66 to 68 deg.
Maybe a Honeywell rep could shed some light on the 5 wires.
the clock is key wound, including the movement that moves the thermostat. sorry, I should have rotated the pics before posting, oh well, you get the idea.

Steamhead

Do you see

the model number anywhere (should be T-something) ?

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Unknown

I believe it is a Series 10 T'stat

It would be 24 volts DPST. White to blue to bring it on. White to red holding circuit. Just like an anticipator today. There is probably a small resistive plug srewed into the thermostat. It will be a two color plug which would have been matched to the primary control (gas Valve or whatever).

The other two wires probably orange or yellow some could have been green would be to power the clock from a small 3 va transformer.

It looks close to a T105 but it is not. Are there any numbers on the back plate.

This has day and night set back.

Honeywell has that one in the hall way at their headquarters along with a lot of old ones.

Rick_5

Timmie wins the prize !! somewhere inside, it says "for use with series 10 controls only" or something to that effect.
I'm not sure what else it says and I'm at work right now, so I can't check. I think the terminals are labled orange, white, blue, yellow, and red (or black) . The wires are fabric covered, and any color on the wires has long ago faded away.

Also, I said earlier that it was a Broomell vapor system, however it looks like the Broomell tank, with the ballcock??, is not operational, and the active part of the system is the Honeywell vaporstat. Does that make sense? I'm sure when Dan's book arrives, I'll be enlightned, but just the same, would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this system. For example, what does the vaporstat do, how does it work with the thermostat, what does the low limit control do.

What was at first, some fear and trepidation for a steam system, has changed to curiosity and respect for a technology that has proved to be timeless. Thanks for tolerating my ramblings, and thanks for all replies.