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Home Depot proudly displays Weil-McLain's boiler - Dan H.
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prisco panza
Member Posts: 6
Would John Danek and The "professionals " Star Supply sells to think this was a great deal if they were not the WHolesaler selling the boilers?.. I certainly dont think so... and when the guys they sell to start losing jobs to these "professionals at Home Depot" I think the backlash will be apparent... And if the program ever gets strong and W/M goes direct how is Larry Cohen and his crew going to feel. Betrayed I bet....but they will continue to sell all their HVAC supplies to the warm air guys that make up 90% of their customers.... Leave it to an HVAC distributor to be the advocate for this... and all you contractors who buy your boilers from these traitors should tell them to sell their ducts and registers to the warm air guys who built their business... Carpetbaggers...perhaps you can move your cheese to another industry next..
Prisco Panza
Prisco Panza
0
Comments
-
Photo was taken yesterday in Torrington, Connecticut.
Retired and loving it.0 -
Was that picture
Taken with the spy camara in the breif case ?
Guess that settles the question about WM.
Scott
To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
Installation
is available.Retired and loving it.0 -
At least the circulator is mounted to pump away!
Starch0 -
Dan
Can consumers buy these W/M boilers for less than prices quoted by contractors? Who is doing the installation? Is this the same type of set-up as Trane with a network of installing contractors?0 -
What prices
are quoted by contractors? What does the job need? Just the boiler? How about the piping and hydronic accessories around it? Controls okay?
I don't know who's doing the installations, John.Retired and loving it.0 -
Take notice
I would like to know if there were any manufactorers who were invited to take place in the bid fest for the home depot business and declined to participate. If there are any such boiler manufactorers, now is the time to make yourself heard. As long as the product is good and whatever the reason was for declining to participate they will be my boiler of choice.0 -
Forgive my naiveness
Technically speaking, a person would need an EPA refrigerant license to install a condensing unit or be licensed to connect a gas line to a furnace. What license would a person need to install a boiler in an existing system that is already plumbed? If none exists, then there really needs to be no agreements between Weil-McLain and a licensed local heating/plumbing contractor. I based my previous question on a straight changeout.0 -
It varies
with the area. Some areas require no license at all.Retired and loving it.0 -
And because it home depot......
The 4 sec. boilers will only be available in 3 sections0 -
The photo
came to me by email this morning.Retired and loving it.0 -
wm in homedepot
didnt they pull all the slantfins from the store. why are they selling these and what profession can they give to the home owner about heatloss. tankless coils, fireing rates and all the technical data that is involved in the correct sizing and piping for the new boiler? thanks0 -
0 -
in Maine
as long as it is a single family home and it is your bona-fide personal abode you do not need a license to install a boiler or do your own electrical work , or your own plumbing. you are supposed to have it inspected by the local code officer. makes for some interesting service calls. Paul.0 -
Wholesale only
I believe Peerless, Bradford White, And Toto are currently available through wholesalers only.
Yhanx, Gary from Granville0 -
Now you other cotractors,
go ask around and see WHERE they are getting them.
You may get another suprise.
Mark H
To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
Weil Mclain in Home Depot
If you take a CLOSE look at the boiler in Torrington CT, you will note it says "Installation Available". If you do not understand the program take a minute and visit your local Home DepoT, bring your cash and try to purchase the Weil McLain boiler. Then you will understand You as a contractor or as a consumer can not purchase ANY WM boiler at ANY HD store.
The TRANE COMFORT SPECIALIST is providing the installation and selling the consumer the boiler and any other associated part and component involved and is also installing it. This is why Home Depot states INSTALLED FOR YOU.
The boiler is sold to the Dealer by the Weil McLain distributor who also delivers the boiler to the jobsite for the contractor involved. The contractor pays the distributor and it is business as usual.
Being both the Weil McLain Distributor for CT as well as the Trane Distributor I would like to make it very clear,We are proud of this program! It will eventually force Slantfinn out of the stores and give the consumer an avenue to have a "Comfort System" installed for them by licienced trained Comfort Specialists who are the same High End guys who compete in the market place everyday.
Home Depot is merely a "Lead Generating" partner in the process. No WM stock except possibly a floor model.
Now go into Home Depot and as a consumer try to purchase brand names like- Kohler, Milewalkee, Honeywell, Amtrol, Slantfinn, Nibco, Brass Craft, Fluidmaster, Dewalt, Rigid, Delta and the list goes on and on. Anyone can purchase these products.
If the industry feels Weil MCLain has sold out, think again..........And for those who have a Home Depot credit card or a commercial account at Home Depot ( WHICH IS PROBABLY MOST OF YOU) I SUGGEST YOU DO BUSINESS WITH THOSE MANUFACTURERS DISTRIBUTORS WHO DO NOT SELL DIRECTLY TO HOME DEPOT, or your retail customer direct...you will find the list of options is short!
Being a former 8-year Weil MCLain salesmen and now working for a Company called Star Supply in New Haven CT, I know of many competitors in my area who will sell heating equipment to the consumer day in and day out. At star supply we will not sell any product heating or cooling product to any consumer! Now go into your local Kohler distributor as a consumer and ask them to quote you a product. Most will sell the same products to a consumer which they also sell to their trades people. Where's their loyalty??
In closing, ignorance of this program is the real problem. Don't take my word for it. Check out the October 28th 2002 issue of Air COnditioning Refrigeration News front page!
Thank you0 -
available vs required
> If you take a CLOSE look at the boiler in
> Torrington CT, you will note it says
> "Installation Available". If you do not
> understand the program take a minute and visit
> your local Home DepoT, bring your cash and try to
> purchase the Weil McLain boiler. Then you will
> understand You as a contractor or as a consumer
> can not purchase ANY WM boiler at ANY HD
> store.
Then HD/WM is guilty of false advertising. Granted, I can't make out the "fine print" on the sign on the boiler, but "installation available" is quite different than "installation service required".
Mark0 -
SO SOMEONE AT HD PUT A SIGN IN THAT IS HAND WRITTEN. READ THE ARTICLE AND THEN GO TO HOME DEPOT AND LAY OUT YOUR CREDIT CARD AND MAKE THE PURCHASE. THEN TELL ME WHAT YOU FOUND OUT.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR RESPONSE.0 -
Trained specialists??
> If you take a CLOSE look at the boiler in
> Torrington CT, you will note it says
> "Installation Available". If you do not
> understand the program take a minute and visit
> your local Home DepoT, bring your cash and try to
> purchase the Weil McLain boiler. Then you will
> understand You as a contractor or as a consumer
> can not purchase ANY WM boiler at ANY HD
> store.
>
> The TRANE COMFORT SPECIALIST is
> providing the installation and selling the
> consumer the boiler and any other associated part
> and component involved and is also installing it.
> This is why Home Depot states INSTALLED FOR
> YOU.
>
> The boiler is sold to the Dealer by the
> Weil McLain distributor who also delivers the
> boiler to the jobsite for the contractor
> involved. The contractor pays the distributor
> and it is business as usual.
>
> Being both the
> Weil McLain Distributor for CT as well as the
> Trane Distributor I would like to make it very
> clear,We are proud of this program! It will
> eventually force Slantfinn out of the stores and
> give the consumer an avenue to have a "Comfort
> System" installed for them by licienced trained
> Comfort Specialists who are the same High End
> guys who compete in the market place
> everyday.
>
> Home Depot is merely a "Lead
> Generating" partner in the process. No WM stock
> except possibly a floor model.
>
> Now go into
> Home Depot and as a consumer try to purchase
> brand names like- Kohler, Milewalkee, Honeywell,
> Amtrol, Slantfinn, Nibco, Brass Craft,
> Fluidmaster, Dewalt, Rigid, Delta and the list
> goes on and on. Anyone can purchase these
> products.
>
> If the industry feels Weil MCLain
> has sold out, think again..........And for those
> who have a Home Depot credit card or a commercial
> account at Home Depot ( WHICH IS PROBABLY MOST OF
> YOU) I SUGGEST YOU DO BUSINESS WITH THOSE
> MANUFACTURERS DISTRIBUTORS WHO DO NOT SELL
> DIRECTLY TO HOME DEPOT, or your retail customer
> direct...you will find the list of options is
> short!
>
> Being a former 8-year Weil MCLain
> salesmen and now working for a Company called
> Star Supply in New Haven CT, I know of many
> competitors in my area who will sell heating
> equipment to the consumer day in and day out. At
> star supply we will not sell any product heating
> or cooling product to any consumer! Now go into
> your local Kohler distributor as a consumer and
> ask them to quote you a product. Most will sell
> the same products to a consumer which they also
> sell to their trades people. Where's their
> loyalty??
>
> In closing, ignorance of this
> program is the real problem. Don't take my word
> for it. Check out the October 28th 2002 issue of
> Air COnditioning Refrigeration News front
> page!
>
> Thank you
To Learn More About This Contractor, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
I wish
my handwriting was as neat and perfect as that "handwritten" sign :-)
Mark0 -
Trained specialists??
Maybe you ought to come to my neck of the woods and take a good long look at the "trained specialists".
I attended the HD/Trane promo here in NY to see what this program was about. One look at the other contractors in the room and my mind was made up. NO THANKS.
This is not to say that every contractor in the room was a bum, but I'd rather not be associated with the ones that are.
I also know that in order to be part of this WM program you must be a liscenced plumber and in this area HVAC contractors are not required to carry ANY liscence. So that pretty much kicks the HVAC guys out. That leaves the plumbers to do the design and install. In this area, not nmany of the plumbing outfits go after heating work, and the ones that do generally do not concern themselves with things like heat loss, and proper piping practice.
IMO, anyone who believes for a second that Trane, WM, and HD are doing this to help the industry is fooling themselves.
I watched what happened when the consolidators got involved in our industry and I see programs like this as much the same.
HD is NOT interested in growing ANY NAME OTHER THAN HD. That is why those involved with the program MUST wear HD name tags when they respond to a lead from HD.
Is HD going to have quality control people going out and inspecting EVERY job? Do they even have people qualified to do such a thing?
And just how much money is HD getting from WM and Trane? Gotta be a nice percentage of total pieces sold. Then there is the fee to the contractor. Or will participating contractors get better pricing from these "vendors"?
A bunch of folks, myself included, would slam Slant/Fin for having their products in the stores. However, THEY were not selling their product to HD. HD bought them from another wholesaler.
This is far different.
Anyone thinking about this program should ask themselves this, by joining this program will MY company get more recognition, or will HD?
The answer should be obvious.
JMHO!
Mark H
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Whatever John...
if you say so. How can we not believe and understand your position and W-M's position? It is only good business to ignore the loyalty that contractors and wholesalers have tried to maintain for years and years. It is only good business to "sell out" to this new mindset of greed.
Is it the contractors that cause this problem to keep coming up because they buy some materials, such as expendable supplies, from the big stores? I'm quite certain that most contractors would rather do business with the reputable wholesaler and/or factory representative.
This problem will never go away and will only get worse as long as contractors support what is happening in every marketplace. If the big stores sell Kohler, W-M, etc. quit using those products...there are many other quality options.
If your customer provides equipment or product for contractor install (labor only), have them call someone that doesn't care about supporting the eventual demise of the contractor and wholesaler, as we know it.
If your supplier cannot and will not serve the contractor exclusively, then go somewhere else, even if it is in another city.
If contractors are going to be weak, then we all suffer...including the wholesalers and factory guys that think they can have it both ways. In my opinion, if contractors cannot and do not support the local wholesaler; you will soon see that wholesaler out of business.
Im sure that I am old fashioned, but my definition of a contractor is a guy (a company) who provides his complete services to the end-user, not just installation services and a few fittings. In addition, my definition of a wholesaler is a guy (a business) that 100% supports the contractor and his business efforts.
Loyalty is really a biggie in my book all the way around.
Bill
0 -
wiel mclain
in ma. slant fin boilers are still on the shelves i believe even after weil mclain is being sold by h.d. they will still be there for the handy guys to install them selves i hope they never callme to fix thier screwups0 -
Has anyone ever read "Who moved my cheese"?
Thank you for your comments on the topics.
John0 -
Sure, but
that doesn't mean your ideas in that book will make your ideas work (anyone can write a book). If the contractor's want to "ALLOW" this change to go ahead, then it will. That is the reason that you guys have cut and run...because the contractor's are not as strong as they used to be and as strong as they need to be.
It is up to them...not the other way around. Things could change either way. I know where I will direct my business !!
Bill0 -
I agree
John sounds like a true Clintonian democrat. No matter how he may define WM, and Trane's relationship with Home Cheapo....the fact remains that these two manufacturers are helping to grow Home Cheapo's business. That, in and of itself is what pisses us independant contractors off. Of course since these manufacturers hold a large market share and have been around forever there is no big fear of retaliation from the tradesmen.
If you have a relationship with her, are in her apartment, see her inner workings, but never technically do "it" (i.e. sell directly to consumer), is it actually an affair? Hmmmmm
Casmo0 -
Wow!
I wish I could advertise my company at Home Depot (If I had one). Is this Trane Comfort Specialist a company? That is my understanding of John's letter. It seems that many of us are against WM but the real sell out is the company doing the installs. They have found an edge above other contractors and acted upon it. That is typical business in America today. Can you blame them? If you could find a way to triple your business and make potential customers for any of their future needs, wouldn't you go for it?
I do wonder How HD benefits from this all. What is in it for them? How would you give them a cut and keep your price competitive?
0 -
Pump
But they are still going to pump into the exp tank and air scoop, cause they go right on top nomatter where the pump is.0 -
TCS Dealer
The Trane Comfort Specialist is a Trane Dealer who has commited his company to providing 100% customer satisfaction while doing business with the consumer. Although a privately owned company, the TCS dealer must submit to specialized training and uphold the highest integrity. Like any program, some are better than others however- the majority of these dealers are small to medium sized companies who have made a commitment to their trade as HVAC comfort professionals.
Go to www.trane.com and look under Trane Comfort Specialists for more information. The other Trane dealers are also highly trained who also install high quality equipment in comfort systems. The Trane installer understands customer satisfaction is the key to an on-going successful business. If a consumer wants a "Cheap" price they should seek out the companies who sell soley on low price. Most Trane Dealers sell comfort.
It is really amazing when a Trane Dealer captures a consumer with a higher price. There is no smoke screen just simple salemenship. Most consumers will more pay more if the the value exceeds the price. Most importantly you need to exceed the consumers exspectations. A Trane dealer fullfills these expectations.
Gentlemen these professionals will take jobs away from the low bidder because the low bidder is focused on price. As a Trane Dealer myself, I do not play that game. I usually raise the bar so high, it forces the low bidder to play on my ball field under my rules. The end result is profitability for me and frustrations tham.
As for the Weil McLain / Home Depot stuff, if Home Depot advertises Weil McLain I see this as a winning combination because of brand recognition. Weather you like it or not, consumers will ask for it by name because of the power of the brand. I will benefit even without being on the program and look forward to the additional sales.
The nice thing about America is the right to choose.
I choose to succeed how about you?
0 -
Chevy's for rental at Home Depot
Heating Professionals,
I will never purchase a Chevy truck again. Did you know that they rent them at Home Depot! It's in the famous picture. What a crime.
As someone that is in the know on the Home Depot program I am surprised on all the experts out there. You should really read John's letter dated 11/8/02. Not just breeze through it, but read it.
No Bob the Trane Comfort Specialist is not just a contractor, but thousands of small and large contractors all over America that sell the Trane Brand of equipment and have stepped up to the Trane Comfort Specialist program and follow it's guidelines. Is it perfect?, that is up to the individual distributor and how they go to market. In CT the TCS dealers that I work with range from 6 to 60 employees. All share the vision to professionalize their buisness and look to grow it. One of the requirements of the TCS Program is that on every installation a " Customer Satisfaction Survey" is solicited by the contractors thru Trane to see if the Customer is satisfied with their buying experience. This is done by an independent third party co. The contractors recieve a score good or bad on each reply. Now let's assume that most return with a good score, they do. Your installers know what your doing because THEY are part of the Installation, RIGHT? If a score comes back below a predetermined level, the contractor recieves a fax alert to contact the homeowner to correct the "problem". The contractor then is able to fix the problem and Viola!! A "Happy Customer". Now what do you think they are going to tell their neighbors? Now how many contractors are doing that in their buisness EVERY day. Again just one idea.
As far as Home Depot, none of the Professional's that I deal with would be part of a program that cuts them out of the loop. They recieve leads, pay a small fee on sold jobs only, and reap the rewards. They control the sale! No cut and slides here Dan. Also all future service work etc...is theirs. They are all "High End Contractors" that certainly don't pride themselves on being the low price leaders. That's why they all sell that low priced brand of Air Conditioning, TRANE, RIGHT!
This whole program is not about price, not about HD purchasing direct, or under cutting the contractors. From someone on the outside looking in. sure the mind can "see" all the "negatives", with some knowledge and understanding of this program, it will make you envious.
I was in the "New Hartford" Home Depot last week with a TCS dealer and a consumer came in looking for an A/C system to be installed in his home, the Trane Comfort Specialist met with the customer, called in the info to The Home Depot National Call Center to generate the lead for himself. By the time we returned to his office(20 minutes), a lead generation was faxed to his office. Perhaps it would be better to roll the dice with newspaper or TV? After all if you do not receive enough leads(sold jobs) they'll give you your money back?
Not any media I've worked with in the last 23 years.
Yes Bob, there is a Santa Clause, you can call your local Trane Distributor to see if they have a program in your area. You can find your local distributor at www.trane.com
Best Wishes for you & your buisness.
Happy Holidays
Steve
0 -
I Don't...
...do residential work, and this is no reflection on you personally, or the company (or companies) that you have an arrangement with. Another HUGE retailer who I won't name here - but everyone on this board would immediately recognize - was re-roofing my brothers house. All of their subs were screened, qualified, insured, etc. Great.
The guy shows up to start the job, and the first thing he asked my brother is: "Can I borrow your ladder?". My brother, who wasn't sure he'd heard the man correctly, said "Excuse me?". The guy repeated "Can I borrow your ladder? I need to get up on the roof."
So much for the "exhaustive screening process", which I think was run by the teenager who's voice is always breaking on "The Simpsons".
I'm sure you're a good guy, and are everything you say. I'm equally sure that not nearly everyone on the squad will hit the same mark.0 -
Once again
Put your money where your mouth is.
I have seen the "elite". Don't try to play that "specialized training" junk with me.
What, a couple of days at a "Sales Boot camp" makes you a specialist????
You deceive yourself as long as you can. When this program is no longer as profitable as HD wants it, or they GET THE PANTS SUED OFF OF THEM, you will be standing there with NOTHING!!!!!
I didn't start my business to grow ANYTHING but MY BUSINESS.
I'll stick to MY company colors, and orange ain't one of them.
I can do it with out HD, or anyone else!
Mark H
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Certified Installers?
Well, I am on the west coast, and have not seen any boilers in the Home Depot....YET!! When I do, I will welcome it, not as an opportunity to install boilers for HD, but more as a service opportunity! In the area where I live and work, 70% of my service work is fixing or flat out repiping work installed by other companies. I don't know about the East Coast where most of you are posting from, but a large portion of the Air/Comfort companies here know nothing about boilers, controls, or hydronic basics! Let em install them W/M boilers!! And I will gladly come in and make it right after the original contractor leaves.
Ernie Bogue
Master Hydronics LLC
PO Box 779
Keyport, WA 98345
(360) 394-2049
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HEY STEVE!
> Heating Professionals, I will never purchase a
> Chevy truck again. Did you know that they rent
> them at Home Depot! It's in the famous picture.
> What a crime. As someone that is in the
> know on the Home Depot program I am surprised on
> all the experts out there. You should really read
> John's letter dated 11/8/02. Not just breeze
> through it, but read it. No Bob the Trane
> Comfort Specialist is not just a contractor, but
> thousands of small and large contractors all over
> America that sell the Trane Brand of equipment
> and have stepped up to the Trane Comfort
> Specialist program and follow it's guidelines. Is
> it perfect?, that is up to the individual
> distributor and how they go to market. In CT the
> TCS dealers that I work with range from 6 to 60
> employees. All share the vision to
> professionalize their buisness and look to grow
> it. One of the requirements of the TCS Program is
> that on every installation a " Customer
> Satisfaction Survey" is solicited by the
> contractors thru Trane to see if the Customer is
> satisfied with their buying experience. This is
> done by an independent third party co. The
> contractors recieve a score good or bad on each
> reply. Now let's assume that most return with a
> good score, they do. Your installers know what
> your doing because THEY are part of the
> Installation, RIGHT? If a score comes back below
> a predetermined level, the contractor recieves a
> fax alert to contact the homeowner to correct the
> "problem". The contractor then is able to fix the
> problem and Viola!! A "Happy Customer". Now what
> do you think they are going to tell their
> neighbors? Now how many contractors are doing
> that in their buisness EVERY day. Again just one
> idea. As far as Home Depot, none of the
> Professional's that I deal with would be part of
> a program that cuts them out of the loop. They
> recieve leads, pay a small fee on sold jobs only,
> and reap the rewards. They control the sale! No
> cut and slides here Dan. Also all future service
> work etc...is theirs. They are all "High End
> Contractors" that certainly don't pride
> themselves on being the low price leaders. That's
> why they all sell that low priced brand of Air
> Conditioning, TRANE, RIGHT! This whole
> program is not about price, not about HD
> purchasing direct, or under cutting the
> contractors. From someone on the outside looking
> in. sure the mind can "see" all the "negatives",
> with some knowledge and understanding of this
> program, it will make you envious. I was in the
> "New Hartford" Home Depot last week with a TCS
> dealer and a consumer came in looking for an A/C
> system to be installed in his home, the Trane
> Comfort Specialist met with the customer, called
> in the info to The Home Depot National Call
> Center to generate the lead for himself. By the
> time we returned to his office(20 minutes), a
> lead generation was faxed to his office. Perhaps
> it would be better to roll the dice with
> newspaper or TV? After all if you do not receive
> enough leads(sold jobs) they'll give you your
> money back? Not any media I've worked with
> in the last 23 years. Yes Bob, there is a Santa
> Clause, you can call your local Trane Distributor
> to see if they have a program in your area. You
> can find your local distributor at
> www.trane.com Best Wishes for you & your
> buisness. Happy Holidays Steve
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HEY STEVE!
Answer this question in front of the forum!
Contractor goes to a house on a HD lead. Customer is interested in a furnace and MAY be interested in AC.
The "specialist" closes the sale for the furnace, but the buyer decides to wait on the AC.
Two years after the sale of the furnace the customer calls the "specialist" that installed the furnace. Says they want the AC now.
What happens with this sale? Does HD still get their cut? Tell the truth cuz I know it.
Say it! YES THEY DO!!!!! 2 yrs, 5 yrs, 10 yrs, 100yrs. It is HD's customer!!!!!!
So what if the customer buys a WM install and wants to put an addition on? HMMMM?????
I'm waiting!!!
Mark H
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Mark
that's a legitimate question, but let's treat each other politely, okay? It works better that way. Thanks.Retired and loving it.0 -
Warmfoot
Works the same here on the East coast.
OH BOY!!!!!! A HOME DEPOT CERTIFICATION!!!!!!
Gimme a break!
Mark H
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interesting debate
in the way business will be conducted in the future. As far as a customer receiving total satisfaction, my opinion is that the customer has always held the upper hand in that arena, its called final payment. Nobody pays up untill they are satisfied with the final outcome.
In responce to Steve and John's defense of the H.D. program, those of us who are opposed to this style of business are wary of the rules changing down the road. It seems from my understanding of these types of programs that in order to be successful in that format you will most likely have to alter the way you do business. After you have done that, put in the effort to make all parties happy, dedicated the resources to make it work, what recourse do you have if the rules change?0 -
Hostile feelings Why?
Dan,
Thanks for stepping in to remind people of the being polite. If I were a consumer reading Mark's comments, I would feel he is not only ignorant but a person I would not want to do business with because of his temper.
For the average consumer, making an investment in a Comfort System is a very large investment. The last guy I would do business with is one who can not deal with a professional dicussion on a professional's Wall. Maybe this is how a consumer can expect to be treated when they feel their exspectations have not been met after one of Mark's installations. If a consumer has a problem with a HD job at least there is a 54 Billion dollar a year company standing behind them ensuring customer satisfaction.
Your lack of control and hostile words will ultimately hurt your business.
Hey Steve, nice keyboard work above. Tell mark we support his efforts in Torrington!0
This discussion has been closed.
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