Vapor/vacuum system?

nick z.

To start I will say I have been reading the lost art of steam. There isn't much steam around here but even less people who know anything about it. Custmer has trouble with his steam system some rads don't heat and water hammer. I told him I didn't know enough to work on it but I would look at it. Now I didn't post this before becaus I thought I would look pretty stupid telling you guys it was a 2 pipe system without any vents on the rads, and 1 big one in the cellar. But there it was almost at the end of the steam bible. A vapor vacuum system.
Well, a year later the H.O. still hasen't found anyone to work on it.I'm going to start by cleaning the boiler. The sight glass looks like muddy pond water. Then if I have to flush the pipes.Am I doing right? By the way I will not charge if I don't make it work better. I just want to learn more about steam.

Unknown

We'll help you, Nick

What do you have on the radiator outlets? What name is on these devices? (traps; or seals)

What is the air vent brand name?

Is it piped into a condensate tank, or right back to the boiler?

Is the main piping insulated?

Noel

nick z.

Noel, thanx for getting back to me. Now I'm going to sound stupid ,but I see nothing on the rad outlets. the kind of vent, I'll get back to you on that.[thats from Dans book] condesate runs directly back to the boiler. None of the pipes are insulated and looks like they never were.

Big Ed

One problem

Muddy boiler water is a good indicaton of steam leaks. Ask the HO how often water is added during the heating season. Anything more then "a little now and then" then you have leaks. Run it up on pressure and listen for them.....They will call out to you.....

Unknown

Orifices

I bet there are orifices in the outlet unions or at the inlets; or graduated "packless" valves.

Something to meter the steam and keep it seperated from the return piping is there someplace.

Do you have high and low retrurns; wet and dry, in other words?

Noel

Jamie Hall

Never fear

You have a lot of really good help on this site. I've never seen better! It does sound like a Vapour vacuum system -- which doesn't necessarily mean that it actually runs at a vacuum. It does mean that it should run at very low pressure (anything much over 8 ozs. is too much -- Dan's book is quite right!).

One thing I would check particularly for water hammer is the pitch of the pipes -- if the house is older and has settled some, you just might have one or more dry returns pitching the wrong way, which can create odd problems. They don't have to pitch much, but it's got to be the right way.

Also, remember that there is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid answers -- everyone on this site was confused once (many of us still are, just now and again...)

Steamhead

That system might also have

water seals in the radiator return bushings. From the outside these things look like ordinary bushings, but they aren't. On a Bi-Loop Vapor system I worked on recently they had me fooled.

Why not take some pictures and post them here? This will help identify the system and besides, we love to see this great old stuff!

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Jamie Hall

odd hardware on outlets

Indeed it might. Such gadgets were not at all uncommon, and the blessed things look exactly like ordinary elbows. Pesky. They do, however, do their job...

Mad Dog

Nick..definitely don't feel stupid.......................

you are to be commended for your interest...welcome to our steam club here at the wall. I've been in the same boat.....keep track of your hours there..becAuse you will fix it and you will charge something - even if it is only a half or third of what you normally charge...no one else is coming out of the woodwork to get involved...do your homework, get your questions answered by our experts here and go to town on that system....good luck....Mad Dog

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